Zero Distortion: More on restored Thorens 124
- Thread starter bonzo75
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I think its interesting that most of my friends with vintage tables don't have them as their main rig. Most of them have multiple TTs.
yes circa 40,000 euros & sounds excellent
circa 80,000 best idler i have heard
https://www.originlive.com/images/pdfs/Reviews/Tonearm-Reviews/Garrard 501 TR Enterprise.pdf
Daytona, no disrespect to the good Fraulein of Lorricraft, but €80k is a crazy price for any tt, let alone an idler.
Esp when there are examples like the Blackstone idler at 1/4 the price that I’m sure achieve comparable results.
And this wasn’t much of a review, more a pat on the back.
Esp when there are examples like the Blackstone idler at 1/4 the price that I’m sure achieve comparable results.
And this wasn’t much of a review, more a pat on the back.
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I just dim the lights....
that Ascona is a black Beauty. and looks 'right' in black I agree.
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Mike, in moving from belt, to DD Sirius and NVS, and now back to belt w the AS, would you have ever considered a new ground-up design idler?
I ask, because everything I hear from the designer about the Audiosilente Blackstone is truly amazing, incl all-graphite plinth, quartz analog servo speed control, uber high torque Papst 3- phase motor, and a few more things.
Simone Luchetti the designer feels his new design shows a clean set of heels to other idlers (incl the EMT927), combining high torque/moment of inertia AND vanishingly low noise (unheard of for any other idler I believe).
It’s certainly a design a guy like you wanting to stay at the cutting edge of vinyl would find a lot to like in.
I ask, because everything I hear from the designer about the Audiosilente Blackstone is truly amazing, incl all-graphite plinth, quartz analog servo speed control, uber high torque Papst 3- phase motor, and a few more things.
Simone Luchetti the designer feels his new design shows a clean set of heels to other idlers (incl the EMT927), combining high torque/moment of inertia AND vanishingly low noise (unheard of for any other idler I believe).
It’s certainly a design a guy like you wanting to stay at the cutting edge of vinyl would find a lot to like in.
honestly i'm not really thinking past the AS. the question will be whether I can retain the NVS while acquiring the AS. I might try to. but not because of the belt/DD/idler question, more i'd like my own reference for continuity sake.
while i'm in the acquisition process for the AS, it's likely you will fall in and out of love
with (fill in the blank with a number) turntables for various reasons. for me, the commitment of the AS is such that I can't get all caught up in this or that alternative. I know what my ears heard at David's.the entertainment value of these tt and cartridge threads is undeniable, no doubt. so it's not like i'm a shut-in not talking. i'm not pooh pooing the Audiosilente Blackstone, it could be the last word.
when i'm out the other side of the AS process, and that is up and running......who knows what other stuff may capture my interest. I loved my Garrard, and the Saskia has always been a favorite.
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Mike, don’t worry.
I’m *trying* not to spend your cash (again LOL).
What I’m surmising from a lot of threads, other forums, fans of belt, idler, restored or otherwise, is that idler slays at lower price levels, and the only way to truly surpass them, is to do what you and others like Bill and PeterA et al have done, which is go “take no prisoners” belt drive.
This means the top models in uber brands’ ranges.
SME30, Brinkmann Balance, Kronos, AF1, plus other good examples.
I am curious about the Blackstone. It’s a totally new idler, based on the 124, but engineered from scratch with improved ideas, totally 21st century ideas on vibration management via up to date plinth and platter construction, and a totally OTT approach to speed stability.
It certainly deserves to be considered in any final shortlist, from a potential promise perspective.
I’m *trying* not to spend your cash (again LOL).
What I’m surmising from a lot of threads, other forums, fans of belt, idler, restored or otherwise, is that idler slays at lower price levels, and the only way to truly surpass them, is to do what you and others like Bill and PeterA et al have done, which is go “take no prisoners” belt drive.
This means the top models in uber brands’ ranges.
SME30, Brinkmann Balance, Kronos, AF1, plus other good examples.
I am curious about the Blackstone. It’s a totally new idler, based on the 124, but engineered from scratch with improved ideas, totally 21st century ideas on vibration management via up to date plinth and platter construction, and a totally OTT approach to speed stability.
It certainly deserves to be considered in any final shortlist, from a potential promise perspective.
Am I missing something
The Blackstone has thorens 124 like mechanicals a papst motor, some sort of a controller which is its analog and quartz, sounds similar to what’s in a technics sp 10 mk2, and a graphite plinth papst controller a quartz frequency compared with the platter rotating frequency both turned into a voltage and the difference feeding the motor as voltage, pretty coarse control ?
Not sure where the money has gone ?
Sorry being the devils advocate here as this TT keeps being mentioned without any reference to what it actually is or listening impressions, at least with AS people who have heard it then bought it
A friend of mine builds turntables with all massive from billet aluminium plinth, controller dc motor used in aerospace and carbon platter for a 1/5 this price, with unique massive bearing all bespoke...and he took a year on the resonance control with bespoke features and materials
Has anyone heard this thing?
The Blackstone has thorens 124 like mechanicals a papst motor, some sort of a controller which is its analog and quartz, sounds similar to what’s in a technics sp 10 mk2, and a graphite plinth papst controller a quartz frequency compared with the platter rotating frequency both turned into a voltage and the difference feeding the motor as voltage, pretty coarse control ?
Not sure where the money has gone ?
Sorry being the devils advocate here as this TT keeps being mentioned without any reference to what it actually is or listening impressions, at least with AS people who have heard it then bought it
A friend of mine builds turntables with all massive from billet aluminium plinth, controller dc motor used in aerospace and carbon platter for a 1/5 this price, with unique massive bearing all bespoke...and he took a year on the resonance control with bespoke features and materials
Has anyone heard this thing?
Awsmone, I have a habit of mentioning tts that exist but noone has heard, sorry.
Eg this Blackstone, Spec, Saskia.
I do this to see if there is any reaction, user reports.
I was under the impression this mix of approaches was impressive. Maybe I’m wrong.
Eg this Blackstone, Spec, Saskia.
I do this to see if there is any reaction, user reports.
I was under the impression this mix of approaches was impressive. Maybe I’m wrong.
No worries
I just think we shouldn’t mention unheard of brands with sme etc which have a massive pedigree, or AS which people have heard in comparison with some of the best of breed
I hope Blackstone has success, but the jury hasn’t even convened on them yet...., but does show 124 is enduring
I just think we shouldn’t mention unheard of brands with sme etc which have a massive pedigree, or AS which people have heard in comparison with some of the best of breed
I hope Blackstone has success, but the jury hasn’t even convened on them yet...., but does show 124 is enduring
Keeping on topic has anyone heard the Swissinor 124 with the grey cast platter
ArtDudley wrote on this is I recall, and I would be interested in any impressions
I changed the top platter on mine to oyaide with excellent improvements in resolution, but never ordered the greycast platter
The greycast is an alloy, which was used in minesweepers, and avoid the problems in the mkI of attracting the cartridge lol
ArtDudley wrote on this is I recall, and I would be interested in any impressions
I changed the top platter on mine to oyaide with excellent improvements in resolution, but never ordered the greycast platter
The greycast is an alloy, which was used in minesweepers, and avoid the problems in the mkI of attracting the cartridge lol
I will write in more detail later, but the black stone is really good in terms if very low noise floor, pitch stability, dynamics, imaging, and detail, and general musicality. Unfortunately I cannot confirm if graphite has a color or not...i did not get the time to verify by separating out system color and TT color, but I am giving this caveat because I heard some color. That aside I enjoyed the session a lot, much better than his TD 124 in direct comparison and better than many belts I recently heard, this color caveat to be verified. Hope to do next quarter
I used to use a Boston Audio Mat. It improved signal/noise ratio massively, enhanced detail and intra-note specificity, but diminished harmonic development and inter-note handoff. In fact, it reminded me of Dolby C - enhancement of individual notes at the expense of how those notes related one-to-another. On the LP12 at the time it had a net adverse affect.
No idea whether that sonic signature applies to all other graphite mats, whether it's turntable-dependent and especially, whether that is an underlying sonic characteristic of the Blackstone which I've never heard, but based on that single, isolated incident, seems to suggest I might not be one to look for graphite-based solutions for future turntable options, pending further exposure.
Edit: Re: Tonal color, like I say the Boston Audio Mat reduced harmonics. Things got clearer but less colourful. That could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on one's preferences and their turntable/arm/cart choice.
Best,
853guy
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Of course Ked, it might not be the graphite you were “hearing”.
It could have been any aspect of the tt’s features.
The quartz-based analog servo speed control, composite platter, flywheel/moment of inertia effect, the arm etc.
The q is not so much that you heard it, but was it consistent song to song, album to album? And was it sufficiently intrusive to become a sonic “thumbprint”?
It could have been any aspect of the tt’s features.
The quartz-based analog servo speed control, composite platter, flywheel/moment of inertia effect, the arm etc.
The q is not so much that you heard it, but was it consistent song to song, album to album? And was it sufficiently intrusive to become a sonic “thumbprint”?
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Really good point
I spent a lovely weekend with my tts
I fired up the Monaco and thought it sounded terrible
As I removed the tonearm I noticed a high picked whine almost out of hearing that the tonearm was picking up from the motor
Investigation revealed the grounding wire from phono to step up to controller had fallen off
Replacement and silence
I replayed the record and totally different and improved I was very surprised this noise could have such a dramatic effect possibly was messing with the phono...
I spent a lovely weekend with my tts
I fired up the Monaco and thought it sounded terrible
As I removed the tonearm I noticed a high picked whine almost out of hearing that the tonearm was picking up from the motor
Investigation revealed the grounding wire from phono to step up to controller had fallen off
Replacement and silence
I replayed the record and totally different and improved I was very surprised this noise could have such a dramatic effect possibly was messing with the phono...
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