Zero Distortion: PTP Lenco and Nottingham Dais, Zyx 4D, SPU a95

[DaveyF]

Hi I much preferred the Zyx 4D in this set up. The key was differences in the piano notes and violin notes, each note being more nuanced with the Zyx. I did not see much difference in largeness of soundstage, I just felt the way Zyx laid out things was more proper. On bass and slam, maybe the Zyx was better, but it wasn’t that the Benz was giving anything away. I was also more involved with the Zyx. I have been quite happy with all the Zyxs in private demos. It is not as resolving as Ortofon a95 or Lyra Atlas, and the Colibri, slightly fuller than them without sounding fat, or colored (like Koetsu). I guess latter part of that sentence describes Benz as well. And I like the authority and mid bass/bass of Zyx. It also seems very smooth. I would say that as an alternative to the Zyx I would look at a different sound like Colibri or a95 at those prices. I am not sure if it was the Airy model, but will find out

Thanks. Do you know if you were listening to the MR version of the LP...there is a pretty big difference between the older LP and the LPS MR. ( or the LPS and the LPS MR). I think the ZYX was an Airy...if it was a 4D. As I said before, you probably did not listen to the latest version...the 4D Ultimate which features the new CF cantilever. Apparently, the new cantilever brings more resolution and top end air to the presentation, although I have not heard this cartridge. If that is true, it well could be a competitor to the older Universe 11 or maybe even the Universe Premium...and at a lower price point! All of the ZYX's are receiving this new cantilever, which should make things very interesting in their line. Which is why they are now high on my radar.

I have heard the A95 on many occasions, it falls into two traps...one-- very low output, resulting in having to use an SUT ( not my idea of fun) and two-- a tonal balance that tends to be too lean. Same with the Colibri, although that has decent output. With the Colibri, I find they tend to loose a little resolution...compared to the likes of an Atlas. ( and now possibly all of the higher end ZYX's with the new cantilever). We shall see.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, I know you're mainly a classical man
And hence transparency, tone and timbre are of main significance
I'm aware how the PTP plays to the main strengths of idler presentation
But in comparison to the really good belt drives you've heard incl the NA Dais you a/b.d that day, do you feel the PTP when optimally singing gave nothing away to where belt drive really excels traditionally compared to idler ie microdynamics, transparency, shimmer, reverb, tone, timbre?
If no slouch at these, does it in effect give you everything you could wish for?

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, I know you're mainly a classical man
And hence transparency, tone and timbre are of main significance
I'm aware how the PTP plays to the main strengths of idler presentation
But in comparison to the really good belt drives you've heard incl the NA Dais you a/b.d that day, do you feel the PTP when optimally singing gave nothing away to where belt drive really excels traditionally compared to idler ie microdynamics, transparency, shimmer, reverb, tone, timbre?
If no slouch at these, does it in effect give you everything you could wish for?

Hi Marc, no, it gave nothing away to the Dais…as I said, the only caveats I have are:
1. Maybe some don’t want an immersive all round soundstage but only one behind the speakers, mid-hall like
2. If you compare it to a lower noise system with Boulder phono, boulder pre etc, maybe noise differences will show. Or not.
3. Schopper might be more musical. Or not. His Zyx cart was better (Uni II) with a second-from-top Shindo phono, which I assume might be better than the basic EAR.

Just fyi, reports that Dais was preferred to the SME 20/3 in direct shootouts, including from Bill

I think the PTP is a pretty exciting deck, can only offer upgrade from here with cart and phono. The no brainer cost helps close the decision

 

[bonzo75]

Problem with the Ultimate is that there are no reports?

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Davey, it was the 4D (old) and the micro Benz LPS MR (latest)

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, noise from an idler if my rim drive is anything to go by, is not heard actually as noise
It more a nagging impression of loss of low level detail, some clouding of transparency, some diffusion of imaging, a tendency for bass and heft to dominate over upper mids and treble delicacy and shimmer
If you felt the sound filled the room, but you could hear thru it; if you felt bass was thrilling and hefty but not at the expense of the trails in notes higher up; if you felt the sound was holistic ie painted the little picture as well as the big; well, then noise prob isn't an issue
My rim drive can't quite get it all right atm, hence my big interest in the PTP

 

[DaveyF]

Hi Davey, it was the 4D (old) and the micro Benz LPS MR (latest)

Wow, that's very interesting. The LPS MR is a pretty good cartridge and not easily bested! The new Airy4D Ultimate is now on my very short list...Too bad that one can never hear these darn cartridges in one's own system before making a purchase. Nonetheless, reports like yours are certainly very helpful.
Someone just mentioned that a CF cantilever is actually a bad idea, as it would be very susceptible to damage from any kind of shock or trauma....but I would guess that would apply to almost all cantilevers...including diamonds. This cartridge replacement biz is a real PITA to figure.......

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, noise from an idler if my rim drive is anything to go by, is not heard actually as noise
It more a nagging impression of loss of low level detail, some clouding of transparency, some diffusion of imaging, a tendency for bass and heft to dominate over upper mids and treble delicacy and shimmer
If you felt the sound filled the room, but you could hear thru it; if you felt bass was thrilling and hefty but not at the expense of the trails in notes higher up; if you felt the sound was holistic ie painted the little picture as well as the big; well, then noise prob isn't an issue
My rim drive can't quite get it all right atm, hence my big interest in the PTP

Well - I did say initially I did not feel it as musical until the gun metal platter added the decay. I did not, by any chance, think that this had a pear shaped bottom end, where I did not enjoy the violin or the piano. Though I did not think of analysing it the way you put it so I cannot say for certain. Also from what you are saying, extra attention needs to be paid to cello, double bass, and below, to see if they are resolving enough detail. I always thought that with the right cartridge I would get sufficient nuances on that front, as the Zyx was providing. I think when you go to listen to this, you should either go to Russell's, or if you go to Peter's take the gun metal along, but it's sold out at the mo.

 

[bonzo75]

Btw, I think Pietro of Yamamura horns has the Zyx Ultimate Diamond

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, I'm in some contact w Russell and Peter, so yes, visits in order (as you say Russell w the Tenuto mat)
Also, Russell owning the Zu Druids and me the Zu Definitions, both of us on tube amps, would be a data point comparison ie a tonal density point of comparison
Will see if it happens

 

[bonzo75]

Russell is buying a Kuzma 4p arm at some point. When he sets it up, will visit him again. I will also buy for him a SME 3012 base (each additional arm base costs only 75 EUR for the PTP). That way, we will be able to move the SME directly from the Dais to the PTP with one cartridge.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, for me the "weak" link in my analog may well be my tt rather than my air bearing Terminator linear tracker
I may well ask Peter to provide armboard for it if I go the PTP route
I need to hear the Solid 12 w 12" arm to know if I'm going to seriously miss the nr zero tracking distortion of my Terminator
Fwiw Peter really rates his new 9" and 12" Track tonearms
I guess he knows his PTPs inside out and voiced this new design from the Primary Control designer to truly complement it
He says it really balances detail and musicality v holistically

 

[awsmone]

Good suggestions. The MINT protractor is extremely accurate. I would add that a great cleaning machine can make a tremendous difference toward the enjoyment of vinyl. I just bought a KL Audio with Silencer and wrote a review of my impressions on WBF. It is an incredible machine and well worth the investment for the improved sonics.

I own the Kl also and it's excellent though expensive

 

[awsmone]

Hi I will get help for speed check, Mint LP protractor, Feickert etc, no rush.

Step-Up => Probably the auditorium 123



Where will you place the Bakoon?

Valve I like the Aesthetix Io

Solid state I find the Esoteric very good and with step up into MM brilliant, i am think of getting a second

The Bakoon is fantastic with low impedance carts into mc, either wise I use step up into mm

It is dead quiet if not subject to RF as it an open loop system, the variable gain of 30 DB in 10 DB steps is very helpful!

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . It is not as resolving as Ortofon a95 or Lyra Atlas, and the Colibri, slightly fuller than them without sounding fat, or colored (like Koetsu). I guess latter part of that sentence describes Benz as well. And I like the authority and mid bass/bass of Zyx. It also seems very smooth. . . .

These impressions are consistent with my impressions (on fewer data points, though, so necessarily less certain) of the ZYX versus the Lyra Atlas.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Really looking fwds
1- to getting my serviced Straingauge cart/energiser back from Mr Soundsmith/Peter Lederman
2- getting it back on my arm and my tt on new Rogoz rack/Stacore Adv passive isolating platform
3- finally, installing Peter Downs' bespoke psu for Straingauge energiser
In the meantime I'll try and audition the PTP, maybe at Russell's if he extends an invite, certainly at Peter in NL
If I really feel there is a serious performance upstick to be had going PTP, then I'll prioritise the approx €5k needed

 

[gilles13]

To Kedar
The speed controller is there for confort (swiching from 33 to 45) or is there a gain in sound (better bass...)? Thanks

 

[bonzo75]

To Kedar
The speed controller is there for confort (swiching from 33 to 45) or is there a gain in sound (better bass...)? Thanks

You can also adjust voltage, down to 200. He said he experimented to find the best setting

 

[spiritofmusic]

The word I got from Peter is that Nigel's controller not mandatory, only beneficial in areas w mains instability, like my London apartment that fluctuated +/-10% moment to moment
I'm stable, low noise areas, not essential

 

[bonzo75]

The word I got from Peter is that Nigel's controller not mandatory, only beneficial in areas w mains instability, like my London apartment that fluctuated +/-10% moment to moment
I'm stable, low noise areas, not essential

You mean your power is stable