Zero Distortion: PTP Lenco and Nottingham Dais, Zyx 4D, SPU a95

[bonzo75]

Congratulations, Bonzo, on your decision to buy the PTP!

Yeah, highly immersive, exciting, room fill, bass, dynamics, drive and explosiveness are all terms that are up my alley as well.

The last bit of resolution and refinement is great too, but first of all, a system needs to reproduce the music in a way that shows how much it is ALIVE. Otherwise, what is a system for? All IMO of course.

Thanks Al, I think PTP will keep me happy for a few years and let me enjoy vinyl. I don't have vinyl set up expertise nor the funds to discover the best complete solution, but this will punch much above its price category to be replaced (or, most likely, supplemented) by something else if required many years later.

Also in analog, carts like Ortofon a95 or Lyras can always add sufficient resolution should one desire. As of now the only two things that can require an upgrade is if the Schopper Thorens 124, which teases slightly above, but within reach sounds better, or should I in future not desire immersive but want a more distant mid hall sound stage.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, yr friend Gian has multiple tts, arms and carts
Maybe run the Schopper and PTP so you can have both perspectives?
Tbh, once the addiction on idler immersiveness strikes, there's no going back to belt drive IMHO
For rock and electronic it's esp true

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, yr friend Gian has multiple tts, arms and carts
Maybe run the Schopper and PTP so you can have both perspectives?
Tbh, once the addiction on idler immersiveness strikes, there's no going back to belt drive IMHO
For rock and electronic it's esp true

Gian has not set up his arm on the Schopper yet. The person I heard the Schopper at, I can compare. I am not too bothered though if the Schopper will be better, because apart from set-up mattering, the PTP will have a sufficiently satisfying sound and have a resale value if the Schopper indeed is better. I am quite convinced on either or of them. Art Dudley seems to prefer his PTP over his Schopper from his writings, though he likes both. He said the PTP with the Tsar DST (copy of Neumann DST which was used in the WE room at Munich this year) is the best sound he heard in his system. PTP is easier to sell off if Schopper is better, rather than the other way round (beucase Schopper is more expensive). Also, if Schopper does beat PTP, it will be on that musical decay/involvement, not on bass, dynamics, and immersiveness, where it will be quite good (beat Audiograil Garrard easy). I suspect Schopper is more midhall view, layering behind the speakers, than full-on immersion, and possibly that Schopper style is more suited to Apogees. Lots of ifs and buts there, easiest way to resolve apart from buying both is to buy PTP first.

 

[awsmone]

Hi Ked,
one my friend near Milan,that you don't know,has TW Acustic Raven Black Night,30.500 euro,with 4 arms,but he prefer more his Garrard 301.He says Raven has an hifi sound and this while 301 has more dynamic and natural.
He bought plint from Artisan Fidelity( paid 5.000 euro) and he told me increased a lot the quality.He bought an other 301,one Technics sp10 mk II,he is looking to buy one MK III and one Schopper
He has 44 cartridges,and he start to like MM cartridges instead of MC

+1 with Gian

one of my biggest disappointments has been the sound of AF1, and AF3

also HFN performance left some unanswered question between AF1 and 2

Currently have 5 turntable, down from 7, but i considered a lot more music can be had for a lot less money, plus set up of the motor unit seems very hit and miss to my eyes

i had a thorens 124, and thought musically was wonderful, though not last word in rumble or signal to noise!

 

[bonzo75]

+1 with Gian

one of my biggest disappointments has been the sound of AF1, and AF3

also HFN performance left some unanswered question between AF1 and 2

Currently have 5 turntable, down from 7, but i considered a lot more music can be had for a lot less money, plus set up of the motor unit seems very hit and miss to my eyes

i had a thorens 124, and thought musically was wonderful, though not last word in rumble or signal to noise!

You should try the Schopper Thorens 124 then, get the mk2, not the Emporium (which is noisier)

 

[awsmone]

View attachment 33273
My massive lenco 160 lbView attachment 33274

this photo makes a lot go sense

rim drives have in general large torque and big motors, this create a noise and vibration issue

mass loading will absorb this vibration, but transmute this to different frequency spectrum, the vibration spike to channel the vibrational energy out makes sense

the choice of interface between stand and spike becomes important though!

 

[853guy]

Thanks Al, I think PTP will keep me happy for a few years and let me enjoy vinyl. I don't have vinyl set up expertise nor the funds to discover the best complete solution, but this will punch much above its price category to be replaced (or, most likely, supplemented) by something else if required many years later.

Also in analog, carts like Ortofon a95 or Lyras can always add sufficient resolution should one desire. As of now the only two things that can require an upgrade is if the Schopper Thorens 124, which teases slightly above, but within reach sounds better, or should I in future not desire immersive but want a more distant mid hall sound stage.

Hi Bonzo,

If it's likely you'll go ahead with PTP and the Colibri or ZYX, do you have arms in mind?

853guy

 

[awsmone]

You should try the Schopper Thorens 124 then, get the mk2, not the Emporium (which is noisier)

thanks, i equipped my 124 with schopper upgrades, lovely but noisy , when you have turntable with -75dB of rumble everything sounds noisy

oh and mine was a MkII ....without grey cast platter i admit

 

[bonzo75]

thanks, i equipped my 124 with schopper upgrades, lovely but noisy , when you have turntable with -75dB of rumble everything sounds noisy

oh and mine was a MkII ....without grey cast platter i admit

I would rather have him do the whole thing, and apparently his power supply also makes a big difference as per the owner who bought it

 

[gilles13]

I listen to classical music,voices, opera...and I search a natural sound. I often go to concert. I love the sound of my heavily tweaked lenco for the life, and it ' sound natural. The image is very good and it's important for me. It a pleasure to listen to harmonia mundi, proprius records...
The arm is an Origin Live conqueror and the cartridge a zyx airy 3.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Bonzo,

If it's likely you'll go ahead with PTP and the Colibri or ZYX, do you have arms in mind?

853guy

No, not sure yet. I think it will most likely be a zyx because Colibri set ups seem too challenging. I would like to know what my sonic decision between those two is though. There are a lot of arms that suit. Ikeda, Jelco, SME 3012R, Graham, Moerch DP8, Kuzma, Brinkmann, are all being used with it, so let's see. Moerch might be my 9-incher as it let's me swap wands very easily to try different cartridges. Got to find a 12-incher.

 

[awsmone]

Thanks Al, I think PTP will keep me happy for a few years and let me enjoy vinyl. I don't have vinyl set up expertise nor the funds to discover the best complete solution, but this will punch much above its price category to be replaced (or, most likely, supplemented) by something else if required many years later.

Also in analog, carts like Ortofon a95 or Lyras can always add sufficient resolution should one desire. As of now the only two things that can require an upgrade is if the Schopper Thorens 124, which teases slightly above, but within reach sounds better, or should I in future not desire immersive but want a more distant mid hall sound stage.

i think your fundamentals are great
cartridges are excellent

for low cost big improvements i would suggest

good double shielded phono cable
accurate set up protractor and stylus force
overhang template

excellent stand for tt

speed check, many variations

superb step up......eg cinemag, or peerless/altec

great phono stage.............which is so important, if u get a great step up, you only need great MM stage

 

[bonzo75]

i think your fundamentals are great
cartridges are excellent

for low cost big improvements i would suggest

good double shielded phono cable
accurate set up protractor and stylus force
overhang template

excellent stand for tt

speed check, many variations

superb step up......eg cinemag, or peerless/altec

great phono stage.............which is so important, if u get a great step up, you only need great MM stage

Hi I will get help for speed check, Mint LP protractor, Feickert etc, no rush.

Step-Up => Probably the auditorium 123

Phono – I have to decide. Thoress beckons on valve front, if it holds its own against Bill’s Aesthetix IO sig. I also have to decide if I prefer an SS phono. Or to go with an used FM 122 till I find my main phono. I am a bit opposed to buying an IO and then Shun Mooking 3 boxes.

Where will you place the Bakoon?

 

[bonzo75]

I listen to classical music,voices, opera...and I search a natural sound. I often go to concert. I love the sound of my heavily tweaked lenco for the life, and it ' sound natural. The image is very good and it's important for me. It a pleasure to listen to harmonia mundi, proprius records...
The arm is an Origin Live conqueror and the cartridge a zyx airy 3.

Same. Have Brahms piano concerto 2 tomorrow and Murray Pariah in recital on Sunday. And Shostakovich 5th again next week.

Haven't heard the Airy but Zyx's have been excellent all through. I have now heard the Techdas AF1, Schopper, PTP, and Feickert Firebird with different Zyxs. And yes, I did hear them with other carts, and also heard the TTs I compared Feickert with Zyx, which I did not like. I preferred the Ikeda 407 to the Thales on the Feickert with the Zyx UNI, though number95 prefers the Graham to the Ikeda (he owns both) with his Zyx Universe Premium. And Peter, the PTP designer, himself uses Zyx, he preferred the Jelco to the Ikeda and used it for a while.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, you ought to consider the new tonearm that Peter is proud to recommend in the PTP
The "Target" arm
It's been developed in partnership w Primary Control, another NL engineering audio concern, available in 9" and 12" w wiring upgrade too
I can PM you Peter's chat about it
In his words, it's a great balance of detail and musicality, for c€2k
This makes a total PTP Solid 12 w bearing upgrade, SSC feet, 12" Target arm w wiring upgrade, Puresound Tenuto gunmetal mat and delivery to UK at c£5.5k
W my impending passive isolating solution of Stacore Adv on inert Rogoz rack, there's a good chance this could be an uber solution in my room
Btw, w my extremely low noise and stable pwr, Nigel's speed controller not needed here
In London, Zone One, polluted electrical, probably essential

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t think it’s just for cleaning power, but I could be wrong. You can also adjust voltage to 220 or below. For example, the Schopper power supply gets it down to 200, where he found the TT works the best

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, email on PTP/Primary Control tonearm just sent to you
For me if I go Solid 12, I'll pass on controller and maybe even SSC feet
My isolating platform MUST have hard coupling
Jarek of Stacore and indeed Herzan, Kuraka and Accurion active all advise strongly against any soft coupling
The SSC feet have some hybrid soft coupling whereas PTP stock feet are 100% hard

 

[PeterA]

i think your fundamentals are great
cartridges are excellent

for low cost big improvements i would suggest

good double shielded phono cable
accurate set up protractor and stylus force
overhang template

excellent stand for tt

speed check, many variations

superb step up......eg cinemag, or peerless/altec

great phono stage.............which is so important, if u get a great step up, you only need great MM stage

Good suggestions. The MINT protractor is extremely accurate. I would add that a great cleaning machine can make a tremendous difference toward the enjoyment of vinyl. I just bought a KL Audio with Silencer and wrote a review of my impressions on WBF. It is an incredible machine and well worth the investment for the improved sonics.

 

[DaveyF]

bonzo75, could you elaborate further on your thoughts between the Zyx Airy4d ( I presume it was this model) and the Benz LPS ( a MR??). These are two models that are high on my interest list. The Zyx has a new version ( that is probably not what you heard) featuring a carbon fibre cantilever! The Benz LP...now with the much improved micro ridge stylus is a little long in the tooth...design wise.

 

[bonzo75]

bonzo75, could you elaborate further on your thoughts between the Zyx Airy4d ( I presume it was this model) and the Benz LPS ( a MR??). These are two models that are high on my interest list. The Zyx has a new version ( that is probably not what you heard) featuring a carbon fibre cantilever! The Benz LP...now with the much improved micro ridge stylus is a little long in the tooth...design wise.

Hi I much preferred the Zyx 4D in this set up. The key was differences in the piano notes and violin notes, each note being more nuanced with the Zyx. I did not see much difference in largeness of soundstage, I just felt the way Zyx laid out things was more proper. On bass and slam, maybe the Zyx was better, but it wasn’t that the Benz was giving anything away. I was also more involved with the Zyx. I have been quite happy with all the Zyxs in private demos. It is not as resolving as Ortofon a95 or Lyra Atlas, and the Colibri, slightly fuller than them without sounding fat, or colored (like Koetsu). I guess latter part of that sentence describes Benz as well. And I like the authority and mid bass/bass of Zyx. It also seems very smooth. I would say that as an alternative to the Zyx I would look at a different sound like Colibri or a95 at those prices. I am not sure if it was the Airy model, but will find out