Zero Distortion: More on restored Thorens 124
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
Torqueo, €7-10k, Blackstone €14-20k depending on plinth/motor options.
One cannot compare the pricetags here.
Torqueo take existing Rek-O-Cut idlers, in abundance mid 50s-early 70s, clean them up and re-engineer the motor and some parts a la Hanze 124, and install in a very pretty plinth.
Simone Luchetti of Audiosilente, maybe the world’s leading authority on idlers having refurbed over 5000 124s, 301s etc, has created a brand new idler, in a bespoke graphite plinth, graphite/metal platter, new motor options incl synchronous, asynchronous, Papst 3-phase, quartz controlled/analog servo speed control. There’s a whole lot more here than the “simple” refurbing of NOS idlers, and I believe more than justifies the price.
One cannot compare the pricetags here.
Torqueo take existing Rek-O-Cut idlers, in abundance mid 50s-early 70s, clean them up and re-engineer the motor and some parts a la Hanze 124, and install in a very pretty plinth.
Simone Luchetti of Audiosilente, maybe the world’s leading authority on idlers having refurbed over 5000 124s, 301s etc, has created a brand new idler, in a bespoke graphite plinth, graphite/metal platter, new motor options incl synchronous, asynchronous, Papst 3-phase, quartz controlled/analog servo speed control. There’s a whole lot more here than the “simple” refurbing of NOS idlers, and I believe more than justifies the price.
Yes fair comment Mark
Just wondered what we were talking price wise
One is bespoke the other reengineered agreed
Interesting ....hope someone reports on them
..
Just wondered what we were talking price wise
One is bespoke the other reengineered agreed
Interesting ....hope someone reports on them
..
I disagree. Many people move in with their hifi and the exhilaration wears thin, that's how it works. People start seeing problems when they start living together. My sampling technique is to keep running into it again and again and again. If I pick up the girl at one bar, I let her back out. Then, if over time, she and I keep bumping into each other and each time selecting each other, and if the chemistry happens in different systems and different rooms not only your own, and stays through time, then it is time to move in. Otherwise move on. I see people here go to a dealer and love something and buy it the next day. I wouldn't do that even if I was immediately in the market. As I said, I did not like Apogees for a while, and even after I liked them, I kept going back to confirm. Eventually they are a second to a couple of horns, but a close second. And this has been so consistent over time and systems, I have given up searching. Though I run into speakers all the time while searching for other components. Same thing happened in digital, more easy. I don't see it happening in analog at all. Just too many choices and variables.
Yes Ked , you make a point but I still think it’s different when it’s everyday
Having said that, you can also optimise components
I keep finding changes to my system improve things, and have become loath to buy new equipment as tweaking often overcomes some downsides of a component
If it works for you Great !, and we will all enjoy your Audio travel writing and comparos
Having said that, you can also optimise components
I keep finding changes to my system improve things, and have become loath to buy new equipment as tweaking often overcomes some downsides of a component
If it works for you Great !, and we will all enjoy your Audio travel writing and comparos
When you select and filter systems, you end up choosing components/systems which have been optimised in various ways. If I did it at home, I will be limited by my budget, space, and optimisation (which for analog will take 10 years to develop). This process allows me to benefit from learning curves. In this 124 example, I would guess I am running into the best restorers of 124 at least in the EU. Not to mention I think that repeated listening at home makes our home system, with its shortcomings, the reference sound that enters our subconscious and which we judge other systems by
Having just spent a month in Europe, for an audiophile it’s so easy to go and listen to stuff, like in USA.
In Australia, it’s harder, you really have to travel to Asia, as I did recently with trips in Vietnam and Singapore, but they are still long trips..
West Coast when I used to live even worse, but luckily 3 hours closer to Singapore
In Australia, it’s harder, you really have to travel to Asia, as I did recently with trips in Vietnam and Singapore, but they are still long trips..
West Coast when I used to live even worse, but luckily 3 hours closer to Singapore
Ten years? For what? But yes, IMHO we are seldom optimizing systems, most of the time we are evolving them.
Yes I should
In zero ?
Highlights were
Silbatone Kronos system
Full TAD R1 system
hOrns
Disappointment TRIOs with Full Audio note, Avalon Goldmund dcs VIVALDI stack ?
In zero ?
Highlights were
Silbatone Kronos system
Full TAD R1 system
hOrns
Disappointment TRIOs with Full Audio note, Avalon Goldmund dcs VIVALDI stack ?
you could write here too. When Ron and I heard trio with 9w audio note it could not drive it, but air tight with the same wattage could.
Oh you heard the horns universum with Silbatone? That will be great. What were your impressions?
Hi Ked
I shouldn’t hijack this thread, will start another, I have a couple of pics also
Back to 124 restore
The swissinor parts are very well made
I love the panzerholz 12 armboard
Where it got all very complicated was you has to be careful with the tension on the armboard screws with my tone arm
I am interested about running it slightly fast, possibly that increases torque slightly
I found rumble low
My plinth was multilayered birch and steptoe footers
Found surface it was on made a huge difference
I found it a bit of a love hate relationship when it sang it was great, but often it was a bummer
When I moved from the West I sold it....maybe a mistake I could buy another and start again lol
I shouldn’t hijack this thread, will start another, I have a couple of pics also
Back to 124 restore
The swissinor parts are very well made
I love the panzerholz 12 armboard
Where it got all very complicated was you has to be careful with the tension on the armboard screws with my tone arm
I am interested about running it slightly fast, possibly that increases torque slightly
I found rumble low
My plinth was multilayered birch and steptoe footers
Found surface it was on made a huge difference
I found it a bit of a love hate relationship when it sang it was great, but often it was a bummer
When I moved from the West I sold it....maybe a mistake I could buy another and start again lol
At some time I considered going in the old TT game and decided it was not for me now. I think people should spend a few days in the great Lenco heaven forum. http://www.lencoheaven.net/. It vaccinated me - and it has clearly shown me that is such activity there is no better or worst - just that everyone solution is different!
Not only that awsmone like you mentioned in other posts you gain experience from living with some gear and for me even more true with vinyl. I understand Ked's addiction and his data collection process which is both smart and entertaining but IMO flawed with turntables. My experience with more than 80-85% of the analog setups I've come across is that they can be improved upon and most by quite a bit, there's no way for one to understand this without a certain amount of personal experience and ability of repeatability. We all know the importance of setup when a difference in VTA of less than 1mm can make a difference.
david
I don't disagree the process is flawed with turntables. But at the same time, I bet if you went to some random owners place, he would not have optimized it for ten turntables through his lifetime. People like you are rare. So I would counter that a better process is to find people twenty people who have optimized their own. I am quite sure there are many turntable who have never heard their table s properly. Many apogee and koetsu owners haven't heard their gear properly either. My Martin Logan sounded much better than a few others I heard, but not good enough for me, and now UK Paul's are sounding better than duettas.
By my process, I have shortlisted down to schopper with something like a kodo beat (having heard the sp10 mk2) in the longer term, or a restored Denon, let's see. Allnic (with certain valves only) and thoress phono stages for valves, burmester and FM 122 for SS. The others too expensive, and yes, used market matters. Especially in analog. A couple of others in there but I need to compare.
EMT, zyx, and etsuro urushi on the cartridge list, with EMT most attractive due to price. GFS, Opus, too expensive.
For someone who did not look at TTs at all two years ago, that is a good list. And I have during the journey felt compelled to buy some that I did not like later on hearing (mainly belts) luckily I have not had to be saddled with, then have the burden of trying to resale or forced to an upgrade. And this list could change in 6 months. The process allows for preferences to shift before they become biases. On DaveyF's recommendation I am hearing the upgraded lp12 soon. Thanks to Marc's musings, I heard the Blackstone next to a TD 124.
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That is now sold. The guy at whose place I heard mine first (where I heard the PTP) had liked it so he is buying it.
I had bought it purely because I was going to Silvercore's and he had the a85, so I would get a chance to compare, and another has one of the older SPUs, which I wanted to compare, but that trip has not turned out due to his system being down. I was trying to nail down a favorite SPU.
The SPU is good for body and tone of instruments like piano and and woodwinds and brass. All SPUs to me are a bit rolled off and lack detail. If you are listening to tuttis like Beethoven 9th or Scheherazade 4th movement, no. But for Mahler 3 which is largely softer parts with excellent french horns and trombone, yes. The a95 seems to have the most detail of the lot, and more dynamics. SPUs were made for horns, and I liked them the best on horns. Will they sound better than carts like Zyx on horns? Doubt. I could always buy one again, it is low price. Right now I will sell of my SPU a95 and use that money for something else. There was a great Kodo beat on sale. I resisted and now its been sold. The money from the SPU and the Dalby clamp could have been put to better use.
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