Introspection and hyperbole control

[PeterA]

I have heard the Kronos Pro Edition. Same arm but different cartridge than in this review. All that I can honestly deduce from having heard it twice now is that it is but one component in an otherwise superb system. It is surely good because it does contribute to the source system and this system is amazing, sounding extremely natural and convincing. But I can make no conclusions about what the Kronos is contributing to the overall sound or how the turntable itself compares to other contenders unless I also hear them in the same system with the same arm and cartridge. Simple as that. And at a minimum, I would want to test the speed for both accuracy and consistency.

I'm also perplexed by PeterB's use of the term "life". What does it mean and is it in the recording or some artifact added to the presentation?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I guess Peter Breuninger finally saw my Introspection and Hyperbole Control report on his review of the Kronos (post #203 of this thread), and he couldn't take the heat. Instead of responding in a genteel manner he deleted my AVShowroomsforums account and banned my email address! (No loss for me there, except I do like and respect Myles, both personally and professionally.)

 

[Joe Whip]

Wow, I must say that I am surprised that Peter would go to this far to keep his "flame free forums" so ideologically pure. Seems a real shame, not that there is much there to get excited about anyway. The hint of controversy, disagreeing with dogma and bam, you are out.

 

[bonzo75]

I am going to start my own forum so I can delete some people. Bad day at work, come home and delete delete delete. Feels good. Macho. Take that, boss.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wow, I must say that I am surprised that Peter would go to this far to keep his "flame free forums" so ideologically pure. Seems a real shame, not that there is much there to get excited about anyway. The hint of controversy, disagreeing with dogma and bam, you are out.

Out of respect for Myles I did not post anything on AVShowroomsforums about my critique of Peter's review of the Kronos. Thus Peter's deletion of my account there was purely vindictive.

 

[Joe Whip]

Seems that way to me too. Very sad indeed. What a hobby! Geez....

 

[Al M.]

Wow, I must say that I am surprised that Peter would go to this far to keep his "flame free forums" so ideologically pure. Seems a real shame, not that there is much there to get excited about anyway. The hint of controversy, disagreeing with dogma and bam, you are out.

While it's sad, I am not surprised at all. Too far out with his ego.

 

[Steve williams]

While it's sad, I am not surprised at all. Too far out with his ego.

well if he bans any more over there, there will be only a few members left and who's going to play word association with him.

 

[Gregadd]

I'm late to his thread .Allow me to introduce a term. I call it the "Plateau Effect." When we are first exposed to something we like our interest level spikes. If we plot a graph of time vs level of interest We would see a spike and either a dramatic or gradual tapering off(plateau) of interest over time. Indeed we may actually observe interest spikes a few times before tit tapers off. I think it's Sade who sings ,"Never as Good as the First Time."

Some people never want their initial experience to taper off .We call theses people fanatics or in extreme cases addicts.

It might look somethng like this.

 

[Ronm1]

Greg
This is true, but some people are just an A$$?? so it makes no difference.

 

[Gregadd]

Greg
...'{'S]ome people are just an A$$?? so it makes no difference.

:b

That is the last name . The first name is Jack.

 

[PeterA]

Wow Ron. That action is quite drastic. Your negative comment about him on another forum overrides all of the positive contributions that you could make to his forum. Given my comments in this thread about that Kronos review, I may be banned from joining the AVShowroomsforum.

I do respect Myles and he does start some good discussions over there. His music/system thread is a good read.

 

[Al M.]

I'm late to his thread .Allow me to introduce a term. I call it the "Plateau Effect." When we are first exposed to something we like our interest level spikes. If we plot a graph of time vs level of interest We would see a spike and either a dramatic or gradual tapering off(plateau) of interest over time. Indeed we may actually observe interest spikes a few times before tit tapers off. I think it's Sade who sings ,"Never as Good as the First Time."

Some people never want their initial experience to taper off .We call theses people fanatics or in extreme cases addicts.

While others may choose ever new thrills from constantly new gear, I prefer to get new thrills every time from my 'old' gear; the latest one this morning. It's all a matter of attitude -- it's all in your mind. No 'plateau effect' on my part.

But I guess reviewers have no choice but to always look for thrills from new gear.

 

[Al M.]

Given my comments in this thread about that Kronos review, I may be banned from joining the AVShowroomsforum.

After this, I probably will not even bother trying. Not that I had planned to anyways.

 

[Gregadd]

While others may choose ever new thrills from constantly new gear, I prefer to get new thrills every time from my 'old' gear; the latest one this morning. It's all a matter of attitude -- it's all in your mind. No 'plateau effect' on my part.

Good for you. It may be all in some minds. For others it is all in our ears.Thrills can also come form source material

But I guess reviewers have no choice but to always look for thrills from new gear.

Is not that their raison d'etre? (Many have owned the same reference system for years.) To critiques equipment we might be interested in. After all we are far form the 'absolute sound. At least for those who acknowledge its existence and elect to pursue it.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Wow, I must say that I am surprised that Peter would go to this far to keep his "flame free forums" so ideologically pure. Seems a real shame, not that there is much there to get excited about anyway. The hint of controversy, disagreeing with dogma and bam, you are out.

There are several boards out there who've banned people for disagreeing with the prevailing belief. They end up being dull as toast. These are discussion forums, after all, if we all agree all the time, that's a pretty dull discussion. Then again, if we disagree the same way, over and over again, that gets dull too. It just takes longer.

Tim

 

[Joe Whip]

I agree. Without real discussion and disagreement, you are just living in a bubble. What's the point at that point? What ever happened to agreeing to disagree? No reason to take things so personal and have such thin skins. Some can take things too far but geez....

 

[Al M.]

Thrills can also come form source material

Certainly, it always starts with the source material, the excitement of the music itself and of the way it is reproduced through the system.

 

[PeterA]

The members over at AVShowroomsforum seem so agreeable. On one level, that is refreshing. System discussions, turntable photo threads, new equipment info, music threads, all of these seem like nice, friendly, informative threads. But I wonder if the members over there really respect the over the top hyperbole of that Kronos review. No questions about direct comparisons with such absolute statements of best in the world. Really? In their efforts to be so friendly, do they avoid any and all critical comments?

I do like the music threads and lists on that forum.

 

[soundArgument]

The members over at AVShowroomsforum seem so agreeable. On one level, that is refreshing. System discussions, turntable photo threads, new equipment info, music threads, all of these seem like nice, friendly, informative threads. But I wonder if the members over there really respect the over the top hyperbole of that Kronos review. No questions about direct comparisons with such absolute statements of best in the world. Really? In their efforts to be so friendly, do they avoid any and all critical comments?

I've poked around on the AVShowrooms Forums, and indeed, they offer a lot of information about--and praise of--new products. I've also watched some of Mr. Breuninger's video reviews, which lead me to believe that Mr. Breuninger has never been less than effusive in his praise of new products. I can think of nothing wrong with offering a continuous stream of praise of new and expensive products, which might happen to be well-engineered audio devices. I do not allege that Mr. Breuninger or the AVShowrooms Forums members are praising products in bad faith.

I'm surprised the Mr. Breuninger would ban RonR, but Mr. Breuninger seems so loath to offer criticism that perhaps we should not be surprised that he cannot accept any criticism of his work. Here's a little more criticism that I hope Mr. Breuninger takes to heart because I hope he decides to make genuine contributions to the audio arts, as the great HP called this hobby.

Most of us on WBF seem to be seeking a stronger connection to the music. As our different tastes in gear demonstrate (compare, e.g., the tastes of Mike Lavigne to those of Phelonious Ponk), we're taking different approaches in pursuit of a common goal, yet we still gather on this forum to share information and our reactions to different pieces of gear. Some of us enjoy this hobby the most when people question our beliefs about gear (see, e.g., the thread on the BACCH-SP, a thread on which I greatly enjoyed posting and on which, I maintain, I was not guilty of audio hyperbole). I participate on WBF because these discussions can move the audio arts forward by helping us realize which differences are real and which are imagined. Measurements can help, too (see, e.g., the outstanding Jitterbug/Regen thread).

Unquestioned praise of new and expensive stuff, while perhaps fun, does not advance the audio arts. Fetishizing gear is wonderful for manufacturers, and might have the positive effect of generating demand for high-end audio gear among people who don't care about music and thereby reducing the incremental costs of good equipment.

However, gear lust is only tangentially related to the audio arts because it has nothing to do with music. Caressing a turntable with white gloves or playing the same audiophile record of dubious artistic quality 50 times might impress someone, but it has nothing to do with the hobby that I know.

I will not be participating in the AVShowrooms Forums.