What's best in tube-friendly loudspeakers?

[microstrip]

They sound too slow and sluggish. As compared to running quality low powered amps on speakers those amps work with or high powered SS amps on speakers those work with.

I have the VTL Siegfried II , connrad johnson LP275 and Lamm ML3 and the high powered amplifiers do not sound slow and sluggish at all. Surely I will not use them with the same preamplfier, cables and source to carry shootouts every half an hour ...

 

[morricab]

Ked, you argue:
"My point is, I prefer speakers where the 2a3 type amps sounds better, or whole loads of watts of SS sounds better. The speaker on which the KT valves sound better than the 2a3 (there are many) is either not the right speaker or does not have the right SS amplification."

So by a priori defined dogma you think that 2A3 type amps must sound better than KT type amps, and thus if they don't, something must be wrong with the speaker, the matching of the speaker, or the SS amplification for that speaker rather than the KT type amp used on it?

This is the backward logic of dogmatism. I prefer following empirical evidence instead of preconceived dogma.

You said:
"I just find all systems driven with KT valves meh."

As others have pointed out, KT150 tubes are a different ballgame than other KT tubes. And yes, I have heard KT150 type amps that in some respects sounded less good on my speakers than my 2A3 amps. It is all about implementation, not just the tube itself (as for the quality of 2A3 implementation in my previous amps, I have commented above).

Maybe your PP 2A3 amp just wasn’t all that good or quite enough power...or the output iron was lacking?? I had a VAC 30/30 that worked nicely with Ref 3as, solid power big output trannies made good bass...but it was crushed as well by a good SET.

 

[microstrip]

Of course they match up up far more speakers than 2a3. The AR 250SE sound great, but on all speakers where I need such power, there are better SS alternatives.

Can you give us a few solid examples?

 

[bonzo75]

I have the VTL Siegfried II , connrad johnson LP275 and Lamm ML3 and the high powered amplifiers do not sound slow and sluggish at all. Surely I will not use them with the same preamplfier, cables and source to carry shootouts every half an hour ...

Yes but you are trying on speakers none of them sound good on. Those speakers you need dagostino momentums or whatever your preference is in that area. As such the speakers are too slow to tell if the amp is slow or not.

 

[Al M.]

Maybe your PP 2A3 amp just wasn’t all that good or quite enough power...or the output iron was lacking?? I had a VAC 30/30 that worked nicely with Ref 3as, solid power big output trannies made good bass...but it was crushed as well by a good SET.

You continue to amaze me, Brad.

 

[morricab]

Well, then with 'your extensive experience' you would be shocked about the quality of sound of my system. You're more than welcome to hear it if you ever hop across the big pond.

For enough. I am open minded...I have even owned three different types of class d amp just to give them a fair shake.

 

[morricab]

Question, did the manufacturer of Octave happen to have some kind of disagreement with you, or other fall out, that led them to stop allowing you to be one of their dealers? I ask this, as your vitriol towards them would seem to indicate more than just a dislike for their sound.

We were never an Octave dealer. He got rid of them a year and a half or so before we went into business...they just poor...IMHO

 

[microstrip]

KR audio on a pair of Grande Utopia BE EMs. Destroyed a big pair of Electrocompaniet monos (really big ones ...big SS...LOL what a joke).

Depends on owner preferences and system. I have listened to systems using the Nemo's (Martin Logan and B&Ws) sounding astonishingly good. The Quad ESL63 driven by Electrocoampaniet's sounded great. In same cases the trick was using a good tube preamplfier. Per Abraham solid state electronics could sound great, although I preferred the power amplifiers to the preamplifiers, that many people loved.

 

[morricab]

You continue to amaze me, Brad.

Try a good SET, with an open mind, and report back to me...

 

[microstrip]

Reasonable impedance and moderate phase shift go hand in hand.

Can you quantify with some values? Do you have any quantitative rule to debate or just qualitative feelings?

 

[bonzo75]

I have compared kronzilla, KR va 200 , Vitus, edge NL, and Allnic on Avalon compass diamond. Kronzilla is meh (on such a speaker) Such speakers need more power, as will focal. The KR.200 was the best. I will write in detail on this

 

[DaveyF]

We were never an Octave dealer. He got rid of them a year and a half or so before we went into business...they just poor...IMHO

Poor, because they weren't to your liking driving some kind of horn speaker. BTW, i know of a few a'philes that think Aries Cerat is poor. I haven't personally heard Aries Cerat so cannot comment, but I do respect these guys opinion. I won't rely on it until I hear with my own ears though.
Same might apply to your points about Al M's system, until you have personally heard it, I think all else is purely conjecture. Also applies to all other systems that you have not heard, and for that matter with gear that includes Octave amps and gear that you have not heard...purely conjecture that it is 'poor'. IMO.

 

[microstrip]

I have yet to be convinced by either a big PP tube amp or SS amp. Too complex and too much feedback = damaged Sonics.

No one pretends to convince you - we should respect user preferences.

But IMHO your equation is completely wrong and only shows a a narrow view of this hobby or probably just a strong expression of preference.

 

[DaveyF]

I have compared kronzilla, KR va 200 , Vitus, edge NL, and Allnic on Avalon compass diamond. Kronzilla is meh (on such a speaker) Such speakers need more power, as will focal. The KR.200 was the best. I will write in detail on this

Any possibility that you think that the room, or the set up, or another variable might have something to do with your conclusion??? Or, that your conclusion that it sounds 'meh' to you, that maybe be it sounds great to another listener???

 

[jeff1225]

"IMO" this thread has jumped the rails....

My favorite tube friendly speakers that I've heard are Harbeth, Wilson (specific models with specific amps only), Devore, Cessaro, and Tannoy.

 

[bonzo75]

Any possibility that you think that the room, or the set up, or another variable might have something to do with your conclusion??? Or, that your conclusion that it sounds 'meh' to you, that maybe be it sounds great to another listener???

Obviously I would have heard kronzilla, KR va 200, and Vitus in other set ups. If there is another listener who has done the compares, he is welcome to comment. I know what the owner preferred. I know Jack has experience with the KR 200 and loves them.

Any possibility that what you think comes from not hearing these?

 

[bonzo75]

"IMO" this thread has jumped the rails....

My favorite tube friendly speakers that I've heard are Harbeth, Wilson (specific models with specific amps only), Devore, Cessaro, and Tannoy.

Devore, Cessaro, tannoy we agree on (though I would like more experience with the latter) and don't have any with harbeth

 

[jeff1225]

Devore, Cessaro, tannoy we agree on (though I would like more experience with the latter) and don't have any with harbeth

Bonzo if you make another trip out to So. Cal I'll introduce to my friend Jim. He has Tannoy Westminsters driven by and all tube EAR preamp and power amp. Most of the modern Tannoy set ups I've heard have been under powered. The Westminster really needs 30 watts plus to open up and deliver life sized dynamics.

Of course I'm smitten with my current JBL customer speakers but the standard PBN line is more tuned to solid state than tubes.

 

[KeithR]

What does Phil use on Zus?

If you are listening to more rock than classical, yes I would take push pull

Phil (213Cobra) uses Audion 845 and PSET 300b - but due to solar inverter noise, has moved to a M2Tech bridged digital amps on his Definitions.

 

[bonzo75]

Phil (213Cobra) uses Audion 845 and PSET 300b - but due to solar inverter noise, has moved to a M2Tech bridged digital amps on his Definitions.

Wow that's complex. What does solar inverter noise mean, and why move amps for that