What's best in tube-friendly loudspeakers?

[jeff1225]

That would be an interesting session . Your speakers would also be interesting to hear

Poor mans Aries Cerat for sure. If I was in the market and able to afford a $100K speaker, the Aries Cerat would be on the short list. I heard them at CES and was extremely impressed.

 

[morricab]

Poor, because they weren't to your liking driving some kind of horn speaker. BTW, i know of a few a'philes that think Aries Cerat is poor. I haven't personally heard Aries Cerat so cannot comment, but I do respect these guys opinion. I won't rely on it until I hear with my own ears though.
Same might apply to your points about Al M's system, until you have personally heard it, I think all else is purely conjecture. Also applies to all other systems that you have not heard, and for that matter with gear that includes Octave amps and gear that you have not heard...purely conjecture that it is 'poor'. IMO.

True story Davey. My business partner, before he was my partner, was on the ueber resolution side of the audiophile spectrum and liked the sound he got from the Octave + Einstein preamp combo. NO ONE else did. We did an amp shootout where it’s deficiencies were laid bare (against NAT and Lamm).

Then my colleague got a new girlfriend who happened to be a professional violinist (I accused him of copying me ;-)). After a few months exposure regularly to live classical and modern music (modern “classical “ that is), he finally got the criticisms leveled at his system. He moved quickly to Class A PP Triode and then to SET and never looked back. He finally understood what I had been trying to tell for years to him. He had never really listened to live classical before and a steady diet of it opened his ears. Now he talks about tone and dynamics and not detail and micro resolution. Our system has plenty of that and plenty of the other, not distortion.

Had this not happened he would never have become my business partner as our view on how music should sound at home was too divergent. Now he wants it to sound like live...also my reference.

 

[bazelio]

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[morricab]

Poor mans Aries Cerat for sure. If I was in the market and able to afford a $100K speaker, the Aries Cerat would be on the short list. I heard them at CES and was extremely impressed.

Yeah the Symphonias are something. The Dynamikks speakers we also sell as a reasonable priced alternative would probably also be to your liking given your speakers.

 

[DaveyF]

True story Davey. My business partner, before he was my partner, was on the ueber resolution side of the audiophile spectrum and liked the sound he got from the Octave + Einstein preamp combo. NO ONE else did. We did an amp shootout where it’s deficiencies were laid bare (against NAT and Lamm).

Then my colleague got a new girlfriend who happened to be a professional violinist (I accused him of copying me ;-)). After a few months exposure regularly to live classical and modern music (modern “classical “ that is), he finally got the criticisms leveled at his system. He moved quickly to Class A PP Triode and then to SET and never looked back. He finally understood what I had been trying to tell for years to him. He had never really listened to live classical before and a steady diet of it opened his ears. Now he talks about tone and dynamics and not detail and micro resolution. Our system has plenty of that and plenty of the other, not distortion.

Had this not happened he would never have become my business partner as our view on how music should sound at home was too divergent. Now he wants it to sound like live...also my reference.

True story...?
So before your friend went all in on horns and SETs he was listening to something less than live...and didn’t want it to sound like live before his epiphany?
Interesting that you mentioned the pro violinist, because I know several pro musicians, including myself (well ex-pro in my case) that run to the door as soon as a horn speaker is let loose! Add to that the fact that most of us aren’t that impressed with SET amps, at least all of the ones that we have heard...Not that they are bad, but certainly not the be all and end all that you describe.
Having heard some excellent Push pull amps that utilize the new KT150 tubes, including the new, and excellent imho, ARC ref 160’s, I think SET’s have some catching up to do.

 

[morricab]

True story...?
So before your friend went all in on horns and SETs he was listening to something less than live...and didn’t want it to sound like live before his epiphany?
Interesting that you mentioned the pro violinist, because I know several pro musicians, including myself (well ex-pro in my case) that run to the door as soon as a horn speaker is let loose! Add to that the fact that most of us aren’t that impressed with SET amps, at least all of the ones that we have heard...Not that they are bad, but certainly not the be all and end all that you describe.
Having heard some excellent Push pull amps that utilize the new KT150 tubes, including the new, and excellent imho, ARC ref 160’s, I think SET’s have some catching up to do.

Simple correction, the Dynamikks speakers we use in our demo room only have a horn loaded tweeter, the mid and bass are large diameter conventional cones of high sensitivity (96db/watt).

My point, which you obviously missed, is that his reference was not live, unamplified music but comparison with other systems. He simply did not regularly attend classical or Jazz concerts. Live rock concerts are not good references.

This has been debated here before where many, if not most, audiophiles on this forum don’t necessarily think comparisons to live are relevant...it’s pure relativism here. Why be surprised...

 

[DaveyF]

Simple correction, the Dynamikks speakers we use in our demo room only have a horn loaded tweeter, the mid and bass are large diameter conventional cones of high sensitivity (96db/watt).

My point, which you obviously missed, is that his reference was not live, unamplified music but comparison with other systems. He simply did not regularly attend classical or Jazz concerts. Live rock concerts are not good references.

This has been debated here before where many, if not most, audiophiles on this forum don’t necessarily think comparisons to live are relevant...it’s pure relativism here. Why be surprised...

If your friend never used 'live unamplified' music as a reference, and instead chose to use other systems, I would think he would be amazed at hearing any 'live' performance compared to reproduced. Unfortunately, I think there are still a number of a'philes who believe that our systems come close to the sound of the 'live' performance. Are you one of those folks?

Your point is interesting about your friend, but he could easily have come to the same conclusion after hearing a great pp based system, or for that matter any number of other types of systems...and who would have stated he was wrong? He likes SET, good for him, others...not so much, LOL.

BTW, I don't actually agree with you that attending live rock concerts are not good references...because IME IF you want to recreate the sound of a 'live rock concert' in your home, then you had better attend such an event!

 

[jeff1225]

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LOL

 

[KeithR]

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Can I unsubscribe to my own thread that isn’t about speakers anymore?

 

[Rhapsody]

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[wisnon]

Because the OP asked, I propose this $220K solution. 96db 4ohm solution, so quite tube friendly. AMT super-tweeter is 97db, midband module is 103db and bass module is the limiting 96db. The Audio Consulting Rubanoide 3 way:
http://audio-consulting.ch/?Products:Speaker:Rubanoide_3-way_Speaker

Magically tingly!

 

[wisnon]

With matching x-over (using uber expensive Lessloss wiring):

 

[KeithR]

Let's get this thread back on track - to sum up so far, from more common manufacturers that produce SOTA speakers :

Sonus Faber
Focal
Wilson (some)
Stenheim
Devore (his new 80k pair?)

and various horns - Cessaro, AG, etc.

yes, DonH50 you are correct that Maggies/ARC is a famous combo despite not being a typically tube-friendly speaker

 

[microstrip]

(...) I will define tube-friendly as being able to be properly driven by a 100-watt tube amplifier. (...)

A 100 watt tube amplifier is not the most typical tube amplifier. Usually it will be a push pull amplifier using at less two pairs of tubes in parallel. This will probably result in a damping factor around 10-20 at 8 ohms , that will easily match many speakers. I would add to those you just referred ProAc's and B&Ws , surely avoiding the models with big woofers that need higher damping to control them.

 

[wisnon]

Let's get this thread back on track - to sum up so far, from more common manufacturers that produce SOTA speakers :

Sonus Faber
Focal
Wilson (some)
Stenheim
Devore (his new 80k pair?)

and various horns - Cessaro, AG, etc.

yes, DonH50 you are correct that Maggies/ARC is a famous combo despite not being a typically tube-friendly speaker

Huh,

I gave you a legit option...much more SoTA than most you listed! Ha.

 

[manisandher]

What are your favorite tube-friendly speakers/brands and why?

All the Tune Audio range are tube-friendly. I have a pair of Animas in my main room and a pair of Marvels in my office and both work well with my ~8wpc 300B SET monos.

HTH.

Mani.

 

[jeff1225]

All the Tune Audio range are tube-friendly. I have a pair of Animas in my main room and a pair of Marvels in my office and both work well with my ~8wpc 300B SET monos.

HTH.

Mani.

Us Americans that have not traveled to an audio show in Europe have yet to hear the Tune Audio speakers. There design and looks are excellent, hopefully they will get an importer to the USA one day.

 

[bonzo75]

If you are adding Wilson, focal, and B&W, you might as well add all speakers except scintilla. At Tzbc the big TADs sounded better with the VTL 750 than with the MSB 204

 

[KeithR]

A 100 watt tube amplifier is not the most typical tube amplifier. Usually it will be a push pull amplifier using at less two pairs of tubes in parallel. This will probably result in a damping factor around 10-20 at 8 ohms , that will easily match many speakers. I would add to those you just referred ProAc's and B&Ws , surely avoiding the models with big woofers that need higher damping to control them.

Yes, its my own arbitrary number. But CJ, Vac, Cary, and ARC all have traditionally made ~100 watt stereo amplifiers. EL34, KT88, 6550 etc. KT150 can be a hair over

If you would like to discuss higher power amplifiers, please go ahead and start your own thread. The point is finding speakers that don't require huge amounts of power.

 

[bonzo75]

So now we have low powered tube amp threads, 100w tube amp threads, and high powered tube amp threads.

Is there any thread that asks for speakers other than scintilla that should be driven by an SS amp, or is the answer vehemently no