Paul McGowan Prefers Digital

[Al M.]

I do like his Mahler 2, never tried his 7. I love Mahler 3 and 7 somehow they are less popular. The brass in 7 is superlative

Yes, love Mahler 3 and 7 too; Shostakovich has learned a lot from the latter. Just heard 7 on Harvard Radio the other day, with Boulez/Cleveland. Was blown away by the interpretation. This was deeply thought through, magnificently played. Heard only first two mvmts though, in car.

 

[tima]

I do like his Mahler 2, never tried his 7. I love Mahler 3 and 7 somehow they are less popular. The brass in 7 is superlative

The 3rd is long - the first movement alone can run 35+ minutes and overall get close to two hours, depending. I last heard live with our local a couple years ago. Very Viennese - almost like riding on train, cellos and basses the supporting wheels laying down texture and forward movement. I closed my eyes and took the tour. It was a long ride. The first clarinetist played her solo pointing her instrument up in the air. Beautiful singing at the end. No bombastic climax, No Mahler shaking his fist at the heavens. Around the bend we went. The lights came up and we in the audience sat blinking at one another.

Fischer's 2nd is easily his most popular and well done - a better digital. I like it too, but that gear is no longer in system. I go round and round with favorites for the 2nd. For the past year, of all choices, its been Haitink with the Concertgebouw and Rundfunkchoir on Philips. It's a bit different, almost stately at first but the final movement is as moving/emotional as I've heard.

 

[tima]

True beer aficionados only think they can talk and think like audiophiles while they are still sober!

True audiophiles can drink, talk and think until they are sober.

 

[audioquattr]

Wait till you hear my GG . I can trade it with you for the Pacific retail plus the records you are buying, then I will ask Lukasz to build me another one the same

Sounds like a great deal. How long can i think about it
I hope you know my Pacific is fully optimized for Spotify..... When you close your eyes eh..ears it sounds even better than those original recods.

 

[bonzo75]

The 3rd is long - the first movement alone can run 35+ minutes and overall get close to two hours, depending. I last heard live with our local a couple years ago. Very Viennese - almost like riding on train, cellos and basses the supporting wheels laying down texture and forward movement. I closed my eyes and took the tour. It was a long ride. The first clarinetist played her solo pointing her instrument up in the air. Beautiful singing at the end. No bombastic climax, No Mahler shaking his fist at the heavens. Around the bend we went. The lights came up and we in the audience sat blinking at one another.

Fischer's 2nd is easily his most popular and well done - a better digital. I like it too, but that gear is no longer in system. I go round and round with favorites for the 2nd. For the past year, of all choices, its been Haitink with the Concertgebouw and Rundfunkchoir on Philips. It's a bit different, almost stately at first but the final movement is as moving/emotional as I've heard.

The whole 40 minute first movement is fantastic. I remember sitting at David's and hearing it all through there. I use often for auditions the 15th to 23rd min (approx, depending on performance) where the soft parts play, awesome French horns, violin, flute and then the cellists and bass comes in, that's mind blowing and then it goes loud. A system should be able to do that soft to high with those tones and flow. Like La Mer, that is not easy, while it can be beautiful live, sometimes systems ruin it

 

[the sound of Tao]

True audiophiles can drink, talk and think until they are sober.

Priceless

 

[bonzo75]

For the second, I could tell you the record I like, but only after I buy it. It was recorded without using an EQ curve

 

[PeterA]

I agree with Kedar’s view that I am setting a positive example by traveling the world auditioning numerous top-tier as well as more modest systems to gain a much broader and better understanding of many different audio components and how those components are matched into different systems and with different sonic results. .

Heaven only knew that you might enjoy a solid state and conventional box/cone speaker system during those travels. Or was it the ocean breezes that clouded your judgment? Send in the clowns.

 

[marslo]

This is a excellent point, imo.

The 'music business' has altered radically from the day when the classcal conductor was paid like a rock star and there was a strong European influence among conductors and musicians who survived WWII and got scooped up by cities/orchestras who had the resources to build best of breed orchestras. Recording companies held on to their best producers and engineers and went out of their way to improve their equipment.

The business was substantial and there was no less desire for big bucks than today, and certain conductors were also out for immortality (in the wake of Furtwangler, Walter, etc.) but ... it seems ... overalll ... that in that golden era the music mattered more and the product reflected that. Maybe not that way to musicians of our time - there will always be dedication - but then, to the businessmen and producers - they knew they were doing something special and they were coming out of a strong tradition and some were felt bound to up hold that - they took the care with their product. Their tangible product was made to be played on equipment they themselves promoted it to be played on. They had the luxury of singularity of focus.

Nowadays ... well ... you wanna play Channel Classics / Ivan Fischer's latest Mahler 7th, here's your choices:

View attachment 49297

I will always select a native dsd recording if available, nativedsd.com gives the detail about sampling rate

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I will always select a native dsd recording if available, , nativedsd.com gives the detail about sampling rate

+1....me too.

i wish those 3-8 gig 352/24 and Quad dsd files did not take so long to download though. normally i have to find the right time of day when the bandwidth is not being hammered.

the regular dsd64 files are more download friendly, when that is native.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Are you guys REALLY enjoying yr digital music better this way, compared to when you all had top class cdps?

I'm not talking about choice on The Cloud. Even me as a died in the wool anachronist can't be anything other than impressed w the choice of music on Tidal/Qobuz, found by Roon.

No, I really mean invisible music making, no discs, not "owning" music.

I still get a buzz, albeit less than vinyl, buying cds and Blu Rays, esp Japanese pressings. I find playing music via laptop so bloodless as an experience.

And I remain marginally convinced that cds played via cdps or transports/dacs, at higher levels, still provides a denser, heftier listening experience than streamed.

 

[microstrip]

(...) And I remain marginally convinced that cds played via cdps or transports/dacs, at higher levels, still provides a denser, heftier listening experience than streamed.

I share your opinion but I am ashamed of such behavior. It only shows how ignorant we still are concerning sound reproduction ...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,
Pissed in the true British sense is drinking warm beer whereas pissed in the true Australian sense is drinking cold beer... these things are obviously a world apart!

That’s why we did Austrexit sometime shortly after WW2

Hahaha! (I don’t drink beer at all, which may be why this was lost on me.)

 

[Ron Resnick]

Tao, there are audiophile style arguments to be had
"Warm beer, is that the same as 'not cold beer?' "
"Cold beer - sharp and refreshing, but can it also be smooth and full flavoured?"
And on.

And how warm is warm?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I share your opinion but I am ashamed of such behavior. It only shows how ignorant we still are concerning sound reproduction ...

Francisco, this is not the thread for it. Recent experience with a top server/dac has really made me appreciate streamed music, and the current state of play in excellent digital (are you reading this, Ron?).

However, and apologies for a hazy memory, but there are occasions where I'm sure I preferred my friend's old cdp (Audio Aero) for sheer energy and tonal desnsity/heft.

And there are many occasions where the SQ of selected Tidal downloads seems diffuse, harsh and overly forensic.

But I could be wrong.

So, next year when I finally wet my nose on a streaming setup, no way is my cdp going. Indeed, I'll be buying cdps and lps at the same rate if I can.

As I say, ripe for another thread.

 

[asiufy]

Are you guys REALLY enjoying yr digital music better this way, compared to when you all had top class cdps?

I'm not talking about choice on The Cloud. Even me as a died in the wool anachronist can't be anything other than impressed w the choice of music on Tidal/Qobuz, found by Roon.

No, I really mean invisible music making, no discs, not "owning" music.

I still get a buzz, albeit less than vinyl, buying cds and Blu Rays, esp Japanese pressings. I find playing music via laptop so bloodless as an experience.

And I remain marginally convinced that cds played via cdps or transports/dacs, at higher levels, still provides a denser, heftier listening experience than streamed.

I enjoy listening to my music, period. I have no need for a silver disc to be there to "feel good".
I started ripping my CDs way back, I think 2008 or so... I used compressed formats at first, and had to re-start again in AIFF. I don't regret it at all. Back then, CDs still sounded quite a bit better than a Mac mini hooked up to a DAC (which is what I used), so after I was done playing the CD, I ripped and stored it.
Now i have 10k+ of my CDs ripped, and the experience of being able to listen to any one of them instantaneously just can't be replicated any other way. I guess that's the "convenience" part that Ron thought was the driver for Paul's preference for digital.

 

[Joe Whip]

Are you guys REALLY enjoying yr digital music better this way, compared to when you all had top class cdps?

I'm not talking about choice on The Cloud. Even me as a died in the wool anachronist can't be anything other than impressed w the choice of music on Tidal/Qobuz, found by Roon.

No, I really mean invisible music making, no discs, not "owning" music.

I still get a buzz, albeit less than vinyl, buying cds and Blu Rays, esp Japanese pressings. I find playing music via laptop so bloodless as an experience.

And I remain marginally convinced that cds played via cdps or transports/dacs, at higher levels, still provides a denser, heftier listening experience than streamed.

I get no pleasure out of hunting for vinyl, Blu-rays or CDs. When I sit down to listen, I listen for pleasure and relaxation. The whole I love to put the LP on the platter, or handle the sleeve or read the liner notes is completely lost on me. Only the music matters. I have the music on a drive and never play the cd after I rip it. I really don’t see the point. It is all ripped to AIFF. I am a happy camper.

 

[Bruce B]

And to confuse you even more, forget digital to vinyl, what about all the digital TAPES being released....

 

[KeithR]

@tima - sorry for the delay

in addition to Trentemoller, for good electronica I listen to Air, Massive Attack, Aphex Twin, St Germain, Comtruise, Rival Consoles, Leifur James, K&D, Nils Frahm, Olafur Arnauds, and the list goes on and on. what you might find is the way its music is designed that a *lot of stuff* is typically going on at once, uses creative phase and recording techniques with different sounds coming out of various spaces (unlike an orchestra where you pretty much know that upfront), and requires significant frequency range. the result of good electronica is very enveloping music. Most of it is well recorded as well.

Also you might note that even DG now has certain electronica artists on its label.

Check out John Darkos significant posts on the subject:

https://darko.audio/2018/02/electronica-for-audiophiles-part-8-ignoreland/

 

[the sound of Tao]

Are you guys REALLY enjoying yr digital music better this way, compared to when you all had top class cdps?

I'm not talking about choice on The Cloud. Even me as a died in the wool anachronist can't be anything other than impressed w the choice of music on Tidal/Qobuz, found by Roon.

No, I really mean invisible music making, no discs, not "owning" music.

I still get a buzz, albeit less than vinyl, buying cds and Blu Rays, esp Japanese pressings. I find playing music via laptop so bloodless as an experience.

And I remain marginally convinced that cds played via cdps or transports/dacs, at higher levels, still provides a denser, heftier listening experience than streamed.

So the question for me becomes understanding what nourishes you as an audiophile and a music lover and that every person’s different approach in these has validity for them.

So you can get a buzz from the act of owning physical media makes complete sense to me but this is not the only nourishment that can be had out of the process.

For some of us the amazing journey that discovering an almost boundless journey to the near infinite sea of possibilities when say you just simply type in the words Shostakovich Cello Concerto No. 1 and this wealth of passion and musical commitment from the various peaks on the mountain range appear... Rostropovich, Mravinsky, Kondrashin... there is an ocean of greatness there to dive into...

So you realise that you had forgotten about the Emmanuel Bertrand performance and so dive again into savour those four extraordinary opening notes penned by Dmitri Shostakovich and relive all the invention and genius, and share in the emotional tension of a life lived in repression and struggle with the demons without and his demons within. This is not a bloodless journey Marc. The music is also the blood.

So whatever nourishes us in this journey is deeply valid for each of us. There are things to savour in the rituals, in our overcoming the technical and mechanical struggles, to answering the maze of puzzles in the many great pathways to refinement, to approach the very mountain and the ocean of the musicians and the music and us... who we are, what we feel, how we connect.

I never make light of anyone else’s journey because these are not silly outcomes, these are rich, and valuable and culturally extraordinary riches, in the experience of music there is a potential connection to the most sacred of elements in life, who people are, how they express their life’s journey, what they discover along the way.

This all can be found via the humble shiny silver disc, or the black gold of alchemy within vinyl, on the boundless world wide inter web or just with some simple ear buds and YouTube... when I backpacked across Europe in the 80’s I left my IMF RSPM IVs transmission lines and SOTA sapphire behind and bought a Sony Walkman and spent a year going to the great music halls of the old world, engaging in music with ear buds and live, going to jazz clubs and raves, partying at night, enjoying music in the villages in the day and in the great cities in the evening and via earbuds on the scenic train journeys and I left the relative safety of my sound system and let go of the known.

Music is a core theme and how you get there is just up to you. When you get there via any path you realise that there is nothing bloodless about any of these journeys at all if they actually lead you to what truly nourishes you. Look without and look within and focus on what works for you and if you choose let go of your current safe places and happy journey, take on streaming as well and enjoy and if not it fine, but it just doesn’t mean that it’s in any way less valid than any other of your chosen paths but rather just not for you now. If you can’t enjoy it then no loss as you already enjoy what you have. But there is no need to question the validity of this way for others. Because I am not on your pathway does not mean that I am lost. Each and every journey is potentially absolutely as deep and meaningful and completely valid as any. No body really has to justify to anyone else why their life experiences have value and meaning and so how their experiences could in any way be some way less essential or somehow bloodless just because you have yet to uncover the essence contained within doesn’t really hold water... or indeed blood.

The blood for me is in the music and the musician and my experience of them, the way I connect is not necessarily the central point of my journey.