Zero Distortion: Tango Time

I won't go into jazz as it is well known the cuts has been altered and differed from the master tapes, it is known in detail for RVG and a few other engineers. However as I understand we are talking about classical here so here are some quotes by people who actually cut some of the classical records of Decca.

a quote from The Decca Sound: Secrets of the Engineers
“There were also compromises at the disc cutting stage which was another key factor in the Decca sound. Arthur Haddy was a fanatic about getting the sound on disc, but to make a stereo disc you had to cut the bass and blend it below 100Hz so that the vertical motion would not be too extreme for styli tracking. And they would cut at half speed in the early days to get the maximum number of Watts onto disc. The cutters were not helium cooled and the engineers were afraid that they might short out, which would be expensive to fix. You had to have the EQ network and get the tape playback to work properly, but it made a lot of sense to get all that sound without too much compromise.”

two quotes from ARSC journal Vol.18, No. 1-2-3 The Birth of Decca Stereo by Michael H. Gray (1986)
"Some important procedures were different. All stereo discs cut between 1957 and 1967 were half-speed mastered, including ones from Dolby master tapes using specially modified Dolby replay machines. Half-speed cutting helped control high-frequency distortion by moving the 8 KHz peak of the early Teldec head (and those of some later Neumann models) to a point around sixteen KHz. With improvements in high-frequency behavior there unfortunately came linearity and distortion problems at the low end, a factor which along with a thirty-Hertz "Kingsway filter" to eliminate that venue's subway rumble may account for the absence of really deep bass on many early Decca stereo discs."

"By 1968, Decca was using a new Neumann SX-68 cutting head. With the installation of a Neumann SX-74 cutting head in 1974 that was joined in 1981 by a VMS-80 cutting lathe, a system was created that was at last able to pass the full frequency and dynamic range of Decca's master tapes. Even with top-class cutters, however, Decca did not remain immune from the inconsistencies of vinyl disc production, so that a single well-cut lacquer could through plating and pressing create copies different enough to make statements about which pressings are good and which are not almost impossible to make."

a quote from the Transcript of interview conducted 17th October 2017 with engineer Stan Goodall, the engineer at Decca
I started to cut Mono LPs and I started cutting mono LPS with an engineer called Ron Mason who taught me how to do that. I remember he had rather big fingers but he was very delicate when used to put the cutting needle down cut the record he taught me how to cut Mono LPs. And because I was young and enthusiastic the new system the new sound system come on the block was stereo sound, in the old days it was double F double R which was full frequency recorded sound from fifty to fifteen thousand cycles and then when stereo came out it was double F double S full frequency stereophonic sound which used to emblazon the Decca label.

PS. if we really like to hear how the recordings actually sounded like, we would need the original three channel master tapes, a three channel tape player and a three channel stereo system. How I wish we could have these tapes in that format, I would go down the road to build the rest of the system just for 50 of these records. For analog it is near impossible to get these titles in 3 channel tapes but I remember on sacd's some of these three channel versions were released and I seriously considered going down that road and one day I still might as a second system just for that.
 
From what I have read, there is far less altering done these days on some of the reissues. Back in the golden age of stereo, during the vinyl mastering process, compromises were made as the playback systems at the time were not what they are today. However, these tapes are older now and they were not back in the day.
 
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tape deterioration is a fact just as sub optimal vinyl cutting in the past. that doesn’t mean all the tapes are deteriorated and all the old records are compromised.
there are some really great vintage pressings which were cut/pressed right and there are some tapes preserved in pristine condition which makes reissues to be cut/pressed without the compromises of the past.
IMO it can not be generalized like old vinyl is better than reissues or vice versa (regarding best audiophile reissues and best old pressings). there are great examples from both camps.

there are also other factors effect the sound of vinyl. difference in vinyl compound between vintage and new and physical changes on vinyl in 30 to 40 years. it becomes harder, stone like material. harder than new vinyl harder to scratch. was it always like that? I don’t know but if it wasn’t and became harder over time then it’s sound is changed. that’s why old vinyl eats stylus and new vinyl eats itself. (it’s an exaggerated sentence to point out the subject please do not come with objections. it’s just a saying)

which one is best, vintage or reissue? IMHO it is a little bit related how you voiced your system.
 
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tape deterioration is a fact just as sub optimal vinyl cutting in the past. that doesn’t mean all the tapes are deteriorated and all the old records are compromised.
My 1975-76 piano master tapes still beats any Digital piano recording i ve heard to date .
Well preserved tapes go a long way.

Ps i wish tang commented a bit more about the awesome tape gear he has got ? ;)
 
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My 1975-76 piano master tapes still beats any Digital piano recording i ve heard to date .
Well preserved tapes go a long way.

Ps i wish tang commented a bit more about the awesome tape gear he has got ? ;)
Do you have a good AD converter to “rip” it to 24/96 or 24/192?
 
Do you have a good AD converter to “rip” it to 24/96 or 24/192?
No , but i have send a letter to decca which was the last producer of radu lupu / Jorge bolet , no answer .
I also called several recording studios if they would like to make a CD / high rez file out of them , Claude helffer is especially well preserved , but they wouldnt do it because of royalty concern
These are one of master tapes , quite special

1636218678336.jpeg
 
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In case of digital recordings I mostly opt for the CD instead of the vinyl which can be defective and IMO doesn't offer any sonic advantage.

+1
 
In case of digital recordings I mostly opt for the CD instead of the vinyl which can be defective and IMO doesn't offer any sonic advantage.

YMMV!

david
YMMV indeed. alot.

in the case of digital recordings i have interest in; my process is (a) try to determine it's native resolution, (b) see if that one can be heard streaming, (c) and if i like it enough i'll acquire that one. if i hear feedback that the vinyl is particularly good i will acquire it.

i do commonly compare the various streaming resolutions including redbook, to hear the differences. rare that the native resolution is not optimal. there are labels that do a consistently superior job with vinyl mastered digital......mostly jazz, with straight forward minimalist recording processes, where i can just buy the vinyl. but only a few.

i do respect that CD disc's are preferred by some. knock yourself out!

if the music is compelling i just think hearing it the best it can be heard is important. but the importance of digital recordings, and assets committed to them, does vary from person to person.
 
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I don't remember if I have posted this album before. This is a country folk. Yes, I do listen to country music too. I find it is very pleasurable playing this album while working. It is very chilled. The recording is great...seems very believable. For some reason I think of MikeL's system when listening to this album. Mike. I think this album will sound great in your room. Dont know if you like folk songs or not. The label is Gearbox Records.

View attachment 82672
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Incredible album - both music and recording. Gearbox records do some great stuff.
 
Here is something that I have been searching for. A modern day classical artist and a modern day mass recording that sound good in a modern way. I came across a youtube of this korean pianist Seong-Jin Cho playing Mozart Piano Concerto 20. This guy won the int'l Chopin Competition in 2015. So I bought his record. Deutsche Grammophon with Chamber Orchestra of Europe. I have been having such bad experience with new classical records. But I am not only limited and close my ears to only old records of the past which I think sound 99% more natural but more click-n-pop than what today has to offer.

Mozart Piano Concerto 20 is one of my favorite. The Pianist I like on this piece are Yvonne Lefebure and Backhaus. Both play more aggressive than Seong-Jin Cho. To me the Korean has a smooth flowing style leaning toward Brendel. Very enjoyable performance and sound.

E00E4636-CA5D-4216-A4B4-2F5756842BCD.jpeg
 
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The Lefebure Furtwangler one is worth linking on youtube for folks to listen to

 
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The Lefebure Furtwangler one is worth linking on youtube for folks to listen to

Ked. Do you still attend classical concert twice a week like used to?
 
And for relatively reasonable price, Annie Fisher Columbia SAX 2335
 
Ked. Do you still attend classical concert twice a week like used to?

No I haven't been since lockdown started. London just opened up a couple of months ago and due to travel for work it will not be possible till March for me.
 
Mozart Piano Concerto 20 is one of my favorite. The Pianist I like on this piece are Yvonne Lefebure and Backhaus. Both play more aggressive than Seong-Jin Cho. To me the Korean has a smooth flowing style leaning toward Brendel. Very enjoyable performance and sound.

Very good Tang. You have an incredible tool for listening. This is a description and opinion I don't think you would write 2-3 years ago.

I haven't heard a record with this guy performing, but winning the Chopin prize is itself a strong recommendation.
 
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No I haven't been since lockdown started. London just opened up a couple of months ago and due to travel for work it will not be possible till March for me.
So your concert activity is as dry as your sex life. Pity.
 
Very good Tang. You have an incredible tool for listening. This is a description and opinion I don't think you would write 2-3 years ago.

I haven't heard a record with this guy performing, but winning the Chopin prize is itself a strong recommendation.
I am learning from you and some members here everyday Tima.
 
I am learning from you and some members here everyday Tima.

The other thing you mentioned, I can teach you many things about
 
Here is something that I have been searching for. A modern day classical artist and a modern day mass recording that sound good in a modern way. I came across a youtube of this korean pianist Seong-Jin Cho playing Mozart Piano Concerto 20. This guy won the int'l Chopin Competition in 2015. So I bought his record. Deutsche Grammophon with Chamber Orchestra of Europe. I have been having such bad experience with new classical records. But I am not only limited and close my ears to only old records of the past which I think sound 99% more natural but more click-n-pop than what today has to offer.

Mozart Piano Concerto 20 is one of my favorite. The Pianist I like on this piece are Yvonne Lefebure and Backhaus. Both play more aggressive than Seong-Jin Cho. To me the Korean has a smooth flowing style leaning toward Brendel. Very enjoyable performance and sound.

View attachment 84315
Thank you Tang, I ordered this vinyl with empik.com.
I have two DG vinyls with his performance of both Chopin concertos.
He also played during the opening gala of last Chopin competition in Warsaw showing very mature and convincing interpretation of Beethoven no 3 piano concerto.
Should be available on YT as well as the whole competition.
 
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