Robert Koda K160 Amps are on their way finally!

[LL21]

Furthermore, once I have decided which I think is right...I might still try to see if I can have my cake and eat it too. A gentle nudge in upper bass power is something I am ruminating as we get to know the sound.

As for the 10% of tracks where I have a coin-toss between Koda and Mephisto...Tron Legacy soundtrack - Track 17. Those opening Kodo-like drums are a very very good example...perhaps the clearest example so far. I know them well from the Gryphon Mephisto. You have greater articulation through the Kodas but at super low levels of volume, the Mephisto's upper bass balance allows you to listen at level 1...and never feel the need to increase volume because the power is there.

On the Robert Koda, you do feel that itch to turn it up a bit...not for detail but for power.

The other one is Dark Knight Rises...the opening track. The bass is more congealed with the Gryphon...power, drama...B-A-S-S. With the Koda, you get drama, power, BASS...but it is more articulated by far and you really start to hear how Hans Zimmer built up the bass lines in this.

Here it is definitely more convincing that you run with Koda over Mephstio (vs the Tron soundtrack above)...and also because the bass power of the music is more evenly distributed between upper bass and lower bass (where again the Robert Koda is actually more powerful than the Mephisto).

But once again, if you listen casually, there is a raw power pull that you hear with the Gryphon which is also compelling. Again, in this instance, I also find that at super low volumes, there is something compelling about the Gryphon...but it is not nearly as 50-50 balanced between the winner as with Tron Track 17. Here I still find that Dark Knight Rises goes to Koda as winner.

Well, well, well...we had a slight breakthrough this evening. As some may have observed, I decided to go back after 10-12 years and explore where grounding has gotten to in all those years. There are quite a lot of posts under the bridge about my experiences with the then new Tripoint Troy Signature vs the Entreq Silver Tellus at the time (much less expensive but very very good nonetheless)...and my decision at that time to run with Tripoint. For all the reasons of clarity, nuance, air, decay and just pure EASE.

Still, I always remembered that the Entreq had a way with deep house, specifically when there are LOADS of inter-mixed beats and syncopated rhythms...the Entreq always seemed to have a much better way of keeping them perfectly in synch...truly effortless...in a way the Tripoint did not match...and also with FAR greater propulsion (I said so at the time even after making clear my decision to run with Tripoint which we still use today).

Fast forward to the last 5.5 days...we have had the latest Entreq Olympus Infinity Tungsten and Entreq Pluton (3 Olympus Infinity Tungsten's in 1 box)...so a total of 4 Olympus Infinity Tungsten boxes...accompanied by a cadre of their reference Olympus signal cables and reference Peak 4 binding posts.

Day 1-2, it was definitely an upgrade over the Tripoint Troy Signature (now 10 years old)...but [at first] a nice incremental one...but worth a change? Hmmm...

Day 3-5...then along came some improvements...ok, definitely more...perhaps more obvious on certain tracks...but the above reference tracks where bass was not quite as all-out-assault powerful with Koda as Gryphon...not yet that obvious.

...then along came the last 5 hours...smokes! The entire presentation of bass has sharpened, become MUCH more powerful than the Gryphon...and THAT is saying something! And it retains the remarkable integration of an organic whole with the rest of the spectrum...and LOADS more detail that always came with the wonderous Robert Koda monos.

...it's all new right now...but this is now definitive across 6 different albums (soundtracks of Tron, Mission Impossible, Mary Queen of Scots, as well as Mark Isham albums, 1492, etc)...and yes on other test house albums from Fabric.

...perhaps we should wait a bit longer, but if this remains, then it is DEFINITELY about having cake and eating it too. Organic, of a whole, SUPER powerful, an extraordinary way with multiple subtle house electronic rhythms at once...you really hear inter-related beats not just between drum tracks but repeated whispers or keyboard notes which before were just playing in their own time...NOW, they play OFF other beats in the music which was just not understandable (at all) before.

and decay, decay, decay. Such a deft hand with the bass now and yet wackingly great POWER (again, definitely greater than the Gryphon in the house using Tripoint.)

...more to come. Well done Entreq.

 

[howiebrou]

Well, well, well...we had a slight breakthrough this evening. As some may have observed, I decided to go back after 10-12 years and explore where grounding has gotten to in all those years. There are quite a lot of posts under the bridge about my experiences with the then new Tripoint Troy Signature vs the Entreq Silver Tellus at the time (much less expensive but very very good nonetheless)...and my decision at that time to run with Tripoint. For all the reasons of clarity, nuance, air, decay and just pure EASE...I always remembered that the Entreq had a way with deep house, specifically when there are LOADS of inter-mixed beats and syncopated rhythms...the Entreq always seemed to have much better way of keeping them perfectly in synch...and with greater propulsion (I said so at the time even after making clear my decision to run with Tripoint which we still use today).

Fastforward to the last 5.5 days...we have had the latest Olympus Infinity Tungsten and Entreq Pluton (3 Olympus Infinity Tungsten's in 1 box)...with a cadre of their reference Olympus signal cables and reference Peak 4 binding posts.

It was definitely an upgrade over the Tripoint Troy Signature (now 10 years old)...but [at first] a nice incremental one...but worth a change? Hmmm...

...then along came some improvements day 3-5...ok, definitely more...perhaps more obvious on certain tracks...but the above reference tracks where bass was not quite as all-out-assault powerful with Koda as Gryphon...not yet that obvious.

...then along came the last 5 hours...smokes! The entire presentation of bass has sharpened, become MUCH more powerful than the Gryphon...and THAT is saying something! And it retains the remarkable integration of an organic whole with the rest of the spectrum...and LOADS more detail that always came with the wonderous Robert Koda monos.

...it's all new right now...but this is now definitive across 6 different albums (soundtracks, Tron, Mission Impossible, Mary Queen of Scots, as well as Mark Isham albums, 1492, etc)...and yes on other test house albums from Fabric.

...perhaps we should wait a bit longer, but if this remains, then it is DEFINITELY about having cake and eating it too. Organic, of a whole, SUPER powerful, extraordinary with multiple subtle house electronic rhythms at once...and decay, decay, decay. Such a deft hand with the bass now and yet wackingly great POWER.

...more to come. Well done Entreq.

Now you need to bring in a Tripoint NG to compare

 

[LL21]

I wish I could! None that I can audition without having to buy first.

That being said, I go back to my earlier listening notes of 10 years ago...even at that time, the Tripoint Troy Signature did not match the Entreq Silver Tellus on that one memorable track of House where I discovered something about what was really going on in that track which (until I played it again tonight) I never heard again after the old Silver Tellus left the house.

I think that the design goals (the tuning of their designs) is different. Miguel is obsessive about purity, clarity, decay...it is his thing and it shows in the magnificence of the Tripoint work.

Entreq is about flow, about mid and bass tonal density.

BOTH are about clarity, decay, S-P-A-C-E and...with all of the above...both deliver EASE and EFFORTLESSNESS.

But they do it differently. And given my current mix of system...as well as my own personal tastes, I am definitely going to continue to listen to the Entreq for the next week while it apparently continues to settle in. I love purity but I take bass rhythm and SLAM over ultimate detail/decay.

That the Entreq gives all of that...but emphasizes bass rhythm and SLAM as well as mid-tonal weight...perhaps with relatively less obsessively pure clarity and detail that I know Miguel does masterfully...might well prove to be the better match for me.

...more to come...

 

[howiebrou]

I wish I could! None that I can audition without having to buy first.

That being said, I go back to my earlier listening notes of 10 years ago...even at that time, the Tripoint Troy Signature did not match the Entreq Silver Tellus on that one memorable track of House where I discovered something about what was really going on in that track which (until I played it again tonight) I never heard again after the old Silver Tellus left the house.

I think that the design goals (the tuning of their designs) is different. Miguel is obsessive about purity, clarity, decay...it is his thing and it shows in the magnificence of the Tripoint work.

Entreq is about flow, about mid and bass tonal density.

BOTH are about clarity, decay, S-P-A-C-E and...with all of the above...both deliver EASE and EFFORTLESSNESS.

But they do it differently. And given my current mix of system...as well as my own personal tastes, I am definitely going to continue to listen to the Entreq for the next week while it apparently continues to settle in. I love purity but I take bass rhythm and SLAM over ultimate detail/decay.

That the Entreq gives all of that...but emphasizes bass rhythm and SLAM as well as mid-tonal weight...perhaps with relatively less obsessively pure clarity and detail that I know Miguel does masterfully...might well prove to be the better match for me.

...more to come...

Sounds like the Entreq is more involving and draws you into the music more than the Tripoint? That would be my goal with any tweak or upgrade.

 

[LL21]

Sounds like the Entreq is more involving and draws you into the music more than the Tripoint? That would be my goal with any tweak or upgrade.

Given that the current Entreq set up is comparably priced to the old Tripoint, yes, that is correct. But I have not heard the latest Tripoint...and we are talking 10 years of timespan between the Troy Signature and these latest Entreqs...so impressive to say the least for Tripoint!

 

[LL21]

Here is another observation...the Gryphon was ALWAYS great at volume 1. Now I believe that is for 2 reasons:
- remarkably well balanced design which allows beautiful sound at ALL levels
- high gain which also means it was not actually THAT soft when at volume 1 (31db gain for Gryphon and 26db gain for CJ GAT 2...changed to 8db gain with Robert Koda K15EX)

With the K160s (26db gain)...and that slightly lesser upper bass slam, you did find yourself turning up the volume a bit to get that slam on certain tracks. And every once in a while, you'd turn it up again...because the slam's not perfectly balanced with the volume of the rest. So when you let the new volume settle in, then the bass starts to feel ever-so-slight again.

With the Entreq in...we are back to listening to extremely low levels and not feeling the need to turn it up. And we have FAR MORE detail, decay and nuance than before...but we also have MUCH more (and more dextrous and articulate, organic) upper, mid and DEEP/LOW bass.

 

[morricab]

Here is another observation...the Gryphon was ALWAYS great at volume 1. Now I believe that is for 2 reasons:
- remarkably well balanced design which allows beautiful sound at ALL levels
- high gain which also means it was not actually THAT soft when at volume 1 (31db gain for Gryphon and 26db gain for CJ GAT 2...changed to 8db gain with Robert Koda K15EX)

With the K160s (26db gain)...and that slightly lesser upper bass slam, you did find yourself turning up the volume a bit to get that slam on certain tracks. And every once in a while, you'd turn it up again...because the slam's not perfectly balanced with the volume of the rest. So when you let the new volume settle in, then the bass starts to feel ever-so-slight again.

With the Entreq in...we are back to listening to extremely low levels and not feeling the need to turn it up. And we have FAR MORE detail, decay and nuance than before...but we also have MUCH more (and more dextrous and articulate, organic) upper, mid and DEEP/LOW bass.

Did you ever actually match the SPL between amps when listening? Maybe the slam comes from the possibility you just listened louder on average with the Gryphon?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Did you ever actually match the SPL between amps when listening? Maybe the slam comes from the possibility you just listened louder on average with the Gryphon?

May be the difference will be more clear when Lloyd swithches to horns , lol

 

[LL21]

Did you ever actually match the SPL between amps when listening? Maybe the slam comes from the possibility you just listened louder on average with the Gryphon?

Hi Morricab, I definitely listened softer with the Gryphon. You could hear someone softly typing away halfway across the room (7m away)...and yet all the detail and bass were THERE. Now you could not hear that person speaker at soft but regular volumes from that same position...they have to speak up. Its because you need that level to get the bass to 'feel about right'...and again, its NOT right because its not in balance, but at least you get that upper bass slam.

However, that appears to have changed as a result of the Entreq...more to come. We might be back to low volumes again.

 

[morricab]

May be the difference will be more clear when Lloyd swithches to horns , lol

Almost certainly...no LOL

 

[morricab]

May be the difference will be more clear when Lloyd swithches to horns , lol

He won't prefer either of these amps if he switches to horns

 

[LL21]

Almost certainly...no LOL

I would love to hear great horns but have not yet...and many of them are HUGE, particularly if they include bass horns. Even the relatively 'compact' but extraordinarily expensive Vox Olympians. So I have never really investigated properly.

 

[morricab]

I would love to hear great horns but have not yet...and many of them are HUGE, particularly if they include bass horns. Even the relatively 'compact' but extraordinarily expensive Vox Olympians. So I have never really investigated properly.

Give the Aries Cerat Symphonia + subs a look...see the posts by Moon...

 

[andromedaaudio]

He won't prefer either of these amps if he switches to horns

I knew you were gonna say that , lol

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would love to hear great horns but have not yet...and many of them are HUGE, particularly if they include bass horns. Even the relatively 'compact' but extraordinarily expensive Vox Olympians. So I have never really investigated properly.

Some things in life just don t need investigation , lol

 

[LL21]

I knew you were gonna say that , lol

Its all about the match. I have not heard horns yet that intrigued me enough to spend more time with them. I have Cessaro Liszt and Beta + Horns, Avantgarde but never the Trios and a few others I'd have to go back to my notes on.

 

[LL21]

Give the Aries Cerat Symphonia + subs a look...see the posts by Moon...

Would be intrigued to hear the Contendo but again H-U-G-E.

 

[LL21]

Some things in life just don t need investigation , lol

Well, I think Vox Olympian definitely needs investigation some day!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Regarding Horns , I ll report back when i have visited munich but i m not very hopefull .
I hope to hear these new gryphon amps there to.
And off course the big KODO speakers

 

[LL21]

Regarding Horns , I ll report back when i have visited munich but i m not very hopefull .
I hope to hear these new gryphon amps there to.
And off course the big KODA speakers

Fantastic! Enjoy!