New OMA turntable

[ddk]

Really David? You wrote worlds best -not anyone else and apparently over and over.
At least own what you wrote instead of insulting me!!

page 76 of Tang's AS2000 thread.




Dave

That is pretty definite statement.

Is this regardless of the music being reproduced? Imo, lite jazz and classical is reasonably easy to reproduce.

Can it also reproduce rock, synth, electronica, reggae and many other musical styles that are not rooted in the 1950's?


ddk said:

Yes it is.

I was talking about your comment, the way it came out and a friend's reaction don't confuse it with what I said in a different thread. I'm trying to stay away from this thread and avoid commenting on that video so I really appreciate not getting dragged into it over irrelevant personal issues .

david

 

[XV-1]

I was talking about your comment, the way it came out and a friend's reaction don't confuse it with what I said in a different thread. I'm trying to stay away from this thread and avoid commenting on that video so I really appreciate not getting dragged into it specially over personal issues.

david

Actually David, that is not correct. I asked a question based on your ultimate front end/worlds best statement. I wasn't even part of the discussion until your words of wisdom. see below page 75.

when someone claims worlds best, it is obviously going to be brought up when other manufacturers claim world's best as a comparison point. there is no personal agenda here. I certainly have no issues in you commenting on the OMA video as I am sure many of us would not.

I accept your apology

DST has a quality that’s very rare among cartridges; actual mass! You sense presence of real instruments more than any other with it and as you mentioned without exaggeration and hype. It’s extremely symbiotic with the AS2000 because of bass quality, you’re not going to get the same mass and presence with any other tt, even the EMT 927. I keep repeating myself but it’s all about the bass, AS2000, SME 3012-R plus the DST is the ultimate vinyl front end for now, of course IMO & IME. Ortofon SL15 is the closest cartridge I know of that has similar quality of mass and presence but it’s not forgiving, setup must be perfect or it will sound thick and rolled off.

david

 

[ddk]

Actually David, that is not correct. I asked a question based on your ultimate front end/worlds best statement. I wasn't even part of the discussion until your words of wisdom. see below page 75.

when someone claims worlds best, it is obviously going to be brought up when other manufacturers claim world's best as a comparison point. there is no personal agenda here.

I accept your apology

I stand behind what I said and I'm very comfortable with it but it has absolutely no relevance here. You know why I commented on your post, at least be honest about it. Anyway this isn't what anyone in this thread wants to read about.

david

 

[XV-1]

I will die of old age before getting trough those long, long threads !

I found it for you, it was easier than I thought in those two giant threads pages 75 and 76.

cheers

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/american-sound-as-2000-installations-far-east-tango.26052/page-75

 

[Lagonda]

I found it for you, it was easier than I thought in those two giant threads pages 75 and 76.

cheers

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/american-sound-as-2000-installations-far-east-tango.26052/page-75

OK, i stand corrected ! But not exactly David getting on a soap box making a video about his turntable's merits. He talks about the synergy of the AS 2000, SME 3012R arm and Neuman cartridge and that combination being the best that he has heard, with emphasis on the quality of the Neuman.

 

[Zeotrope]

Interesting that he says he couldn't consider a re-imagined idler for the 2020s because the tooling would be too pricey. Yet Win Tinnon has managed it w the Saskia.

And he cites the reason why that tooling would cost “a few hundred thousand dollars”. That doesn’t make much sense, as the profit from 1-3 tables is surely a few hundred thousand dollars.

If you read Fremer’s review between the lines, the K3 doesn’t seem like it bested the top tables available today. And I think Fremer was being generous with his praise.

You do have to admire Weiss for taking this on — it‘s a very ambitious project that requires deep subject matter expertise. How many “HiFi” companies make everything, including speakers and turntables? Not sure if there are any at the ultra high-end, probably for a good reason.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

If you read Fremer’s review between the lines, the K3 doesn’t seem like it bested the top tables available today. And I think Fremer was being generous with his praise.

i've not heard the K3 in person. only from videos. but i have spoken to Fremer about it for more than just a minute. he really liked it a lot. he was not hesitant or unsure. obviously he did buy the K3 prototype. so your characterization of Fremer being generous with his praise misses the mark. OTOH that does not mean everyone would agree with Fremer. but i'm sure it does what it does at a very high level, likely the highest. if that's what you want.

 

[bonzo75]

Fremer’s praise for OMA is also clear on his review of the OMA Technics where he compares it to his continuum

 

[Zeotrope]

i've not heard the K3 in person. only from videos. but i have spoken to Fremer about it for more than just a minute. he really liked it a lot. he was not hesitant or unsure. obviously he did buy the K3 prototype. so your characterization of Fremer being generous with his praise misses the mark. OTOH that does not mean everyone would agree with Fremer. but i'm sure it does what it does at a very high level, likely the highest. if that's what you want.

I stand corrected then. I wasn’t aware that Fremer purchased the K3. I didn’t see that in the review.

I recall that with the SAT XD1 he was more definitive in his praise:
“MF concluded that the SAT XD1 with the CF1-09Ti tonearm (€76,000 when purchased with the turntable) was the best-sounding, best-engineered, best-built turntable he's had in his system to date. (Vol.43 No.12 WWW)”

 

[PeterA]

I stand corrected then. I wasn’t aware that Fremer purchased the K3. I didn’t see that in the review.

I recall that with the SAT XD1 he was more definitive in his praise:
“MF concluded that the SAT XD1 with the CF1-09Ti tonearm (€76,000 when purchased with the turntable) was the best-sounding, best-engineered, best-built turntable he's had in his system to date. (Vol.43 No.12 WWW)”

Yes, that is a very definitive statement. It is interesting that both the SAT and OMA tables are direct drive, yet seemingly quite different looking. And the arms are quite different too. I read a bit of what MF wrote about each plus his thoughts about the TechDAS Zero, but I do not have a clear impression of which he preferred in absolute terms and how exactly they sound different. Perhaps it is there and I missed it and should revisit the articles.

He did make his choice and bought one of them. That says something.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I stand corrected then. I wasn’t aware that Fremer purchased the K3. I didn’t see that in the review.

I recall that with the SAT XD1 he was more definitive in his praise:
“MF concluded that the SAT XD1 with the CF1-09Ti tonearm (€76,000 when purchased with the turntable) was the best-sounding, best-engineered, best-built turntable he's had in his system to date. (Vol.43 No.12 WWW)”

Fremer did not buy the new production K3 he completed the review with, he purchased the prototype model he had began the review with. this mention was later months after his review. and the fact he bought it was a bit obscure in Fremer's comments in his August 22' Analog Corner Column (page 31) under the misleading heading "OMA K3, Bye, Bye" where he mentions Jonathan spruced up the prototype with flat black paint and then says "this one i can afford, and i'm buying it".

 

[Zeotrope]

Fremer did not buy the new production K3 he completed the review with, he purchased the prototype model he had began the review with. and the fact he bought it was a bit obscure in Fremer's comments in his August 22' Analog Corner Column (page 31) under the misleading heading "OMA K3, Bye, Bye" where he mentions Jonathan spruced up the prototype with flat black paint and then says "this one i can afford, and i'm buying it".

Aha, thanks for this. For sure, this says a lot about which he prefers. Even at let’s say half off the list price, it’s a significant investment…

 

[djsina2]

You do have to admire Weiss for taking this on — it‘s a very ambitious project that requires deep subject matter expertise. How many “HiFi” companies make everything, including speakers and turntables? Not sure if there are any at the ultra high-end, probably for a good reason.

But what is he actually doing? Everything seems to be farmed out to people that are actually knowledgeable and he’s basically the marketing guy / art director.

BTW there are some new videos up in the series about this turntable.

 

[Zeotrope]

But what is he actually doing? Everything seems to be farmed out to people that are actually knowledgeable and he’s basically the marketing guy / art director.

BTW there are some new videos up in the series about this turntable.

Well Weiss is doing a lot - the Vision, the integration of all the partners… that’s where the ‘magic’ lies when you innovate anything. Every product is a combination of components from various companies, if you think about it.

My personal feelings for Weiss aside, I do think what he’s pulled off here is very admirable. First of all, you need massive “balls” to take on a project like this. Secondly, to get arguably the most respected reviewer in the world to spend his own money and acquire your first product as his reference is a massive testament to the K3’s performance. Third, which ultra-high end companies in this industry have a complete playback system, from source to speakers? I don’t know of any other than OMA.

 

[Ron Resnick]

which ultra-high end companies in this industry have a complete playback system, from source to speakers? I don’t know of any other than OMA.

Gryphon Audio Designs makes everything in the chain except a turntable.

 

[Shuggie]

Gryphon Audio Designs makes everything in the chain except a turntable.

I nominate Audio Note - from cartridge to speakers, including cables.

 

[djsina2]

Well Weiss is doing a lot - the Vision, the integration of all the partners… that’s where the ‘magic’ lies when you innovate anything. Every product is a combination of components from various companies, if you think about it.

My personal feelings for Weiss aside, I do think what he’s pulled off here is very admirable. First of all, you need massive “balls” to take on a project like this. Secondly, to get arguably the most respected reviewer in the world to spend his own money and acquire your first product as his reference is a massive testament to the K3’s performance. Third, which ultra-high end companies in this industry have a complete playback system, from source to speakers? I don’t know of any other than OMA.

I will throw project coordinator and money man into the list. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing but what would OMA be without these willing subcontractors who also run their own companies? If you put a pile of parts in front of Weiss could he build anything himself? The non-stop marketing of “this is so difficult nobody else in the world could do it” is comical. Cast iron was the plastic of 100+ years ago. Common household items were made from it, entire buildings were made from it. If there were Walmarts back then they would have been full of cast iron items. Nothing space age and revolutionary happening there. I’m sure it’s an extraordinary sounding turntable but if it looked like a standard turntable without the artistic design how many people would pay $450k for it?

 

[Solypsa]

@djsina2 valid points.

While I don't think the tt in question looks particularly great it does look distinctive - perhaps that's a notable point.

Anyway does it sound amazing? Irrelevant for me since I can't afford it. Jus' curious

 

[djsina2]

@djsina2 valid points.

While I don't think the tt in question looks particularly great it does look distinctive - perhaps that's a notable point.

Anyway does it sound amazing? Irrelevant for me since I can't afford it. Jus' curious

At 4:50 of this video he says audiophiles aren’t his clientele because they don’t know anything. As in, they won’t fall for the overly dramatic marketing.

 

[Zeotrope]

At 4:50 of this video he says audiophiles aren’t his clientele because they don’t know anything. As in, they won’t fall for the overly dramatic marketing.

Unfortunately, Weiss’ character colors the products. He’s very divisive - “Trumpian”, if you will entertain the analogy.
I say “unfortunately” because the effort of bringing products like this to light are significant. If his presentation and personality were just a little nicer, he would have a lot bigger following. That’s the irony (pun intended!).

Contrast Weiss with Marc Gomez at SAT. He starts off this video by humbly saying that anyone can build the XD1. Very different personality

Founder personality is important for products like this, which are ultimately a direct reflection of their founders.