"Long-Term Equipment Loans: A Win-Win for Everyone" by Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound

[andromedaaudio]

i am tod there are time restrictions for resale on items afforded industry accommodation pricing. Of course you cannot sale items on loan.

If you wtite an excellent review you might.
For example the manufacturer says i ve sold 100 units because of your excellent review .
Please keep the reviewsample and do as you please with it

 

[Gregadd]

If you wtite an excellent review you might.
For example the manufacturer says i ve sold 100 units because of your excellent review .
Please keep the reviewsample and do as you please with it

I suppose that could happen. Do you have a source for that accusation?

 

[Elliot G.]

I suppose that could happen. Do you have a source for that accusation?

to be honest what company wouldn't take that deal !

 

[andromedaaudio]

I suppose that could happen. Do you have a source for that accusation?

Its not a accusation , its merely a general remark .

 

[Alrainbow]

Respectfully, just the reverse could be asked. I desire someone to:

1) Please provide evidence (not just an opinion) that "most audio reviewers do have a properly set up high-performance audio system."

2) Please provide evidence (not just an opinion) that "most audio viewers don’t have shallow judgment."

3) Please provide evidence (not just an opinion) that "most audio reviewers know about how to review a component."

4) Please provide evidence (not just an opinion) that "most audio reviewers know about sound quality."

5) Please provide evidence (not just an opinion) that "most audio magazines don’t receive money [or other in incentives] for writing positive reviews."

and if I may add another,

6) Please provide evidence (not just an opinion) that “most audio reviewers have the proper hearing to make their evaluations.” This effects points 1, 2, 3, and 4 above - literally their entire review!

I think these are reasonable questions. Answering them - not trying to avoid them - would certainly help many to have more faith in reviewers and the mag rags.

What is wrong with you bro.
everyone needs to make a living and the fact that someone takes the time to put on paper what there opinion Is not a fact for all. but surely they can learn from it. If they receive the item cheap or free or paid to review does or matter

 

[facten]

How are reviewers being paid actually ?
Per reviewed piece / monthly standard wage / allowance ?

In Post 63 Lee stated this "Accommodation pricing is completely fair for writers. Most writers in high end audio only get $200-$500 an article and being able to buy gear at wholesale is a fair bit of bonus compensation"

Maybe there is more context he can add

 

[Audire]

What is wrong with you bro.
everyone needs to make a living and the fact that someone takes the time to put on paper what there opinion Is not a fact for all. but surely they can learn from it. If they receive the item cheap or free or paid to review does or matter

I have no problems with people making a living. I also have no problems with people putting things on paper or vIdeo. But who are these people? What are their qualifications? What are their physical limitations for making valid reviews? How are they paid for their services?

Please answer the questions posed above and the ones asked earlier. As I stated in the post you quoted, “Answering them - not trying to avoid them.”

 

[andromedaaudio]

Its all good with me , what would the high end audio industry or any luxury industry for that matter be without magazines / reviewers .
That said , if you really want the best sound for yourself you got to do your own homework instead of relying on somebody else to do it for you

 

[Audire]

That said , if you really want the best sound for yourself you got to do your own homework instead of relying on somebody else to do it for you

Agreed.

 

[Elliot G.]

I have no problems with people making a living. I also have no problems with people putting things on paper or vIdeo. But who are these people? What are their qualifications? What are their physical limitations for making valid reviews? How are they paid for their services?

Please answer the questions posed above and the ones asked earlier. As I stated in the post you quoted, “Answering them - not trying to avoid them.”

Joe,
That is not the same as saying they are all rags. Many of the reviewers have openly told thier story and have posted or written about their backgrounds, history and listening environments. That is why we got into to begin with. Some, not all. It is however the resposibility of the reader to also do his homework before throwing them ALL under the buss.
The YOUTUBERS for example no one knows squat about. They don't talk about it, they just state opinions, These opinions are just that a one person survey. WHO ARE THEY? What qualifies them? What is in it for them? On this we agree but I wont toss them all in the same pot and booil them.
Harry Pearson told his story, Robert Harley his, Roy Gregory his etc. They talked about thier rooms , their backgrounds and their methods, Here is the difference,
Peace!

 

[Elliot G.]

Addressing this to Lee and others who do have a part in the review business or process. I do think that every now and then the process and the players in the process should be clarified. Maybe prepare a section on the website that explains it all and has the profile and background of those who write. I think this would be easy to do and be useful information. It may exist but centralizing it whould be good IMO.

 

[Audire]

Joe,
That is not the same as saying they are all rags.

Perhaps instead of jumping into the abyss with your comments you should first ask the definition of the terms a poster is using. My father used to call all magazines and newspapers “rags”. My father didn’t mean anything derogatory about the term, and neither do I.

Early on newspapers were made with rag paper and linen fibers. When I refer to an audio magazine as a “rag“ I’m denoting it’s finery as it’s the best the audiophile community presently has. Thus “mag rags“ …

Many of the reviewers have openly told thier story and have posted or written about their backgrounds, history and listening environments.

Yes, I know. But I’m referring to evidence of their qualifications, not self-serving stories.

The YOUTUBERS for example no one knows squat about.

While this may be true of many YTbers - I don’t know them all, do you - in my comments I was referring to reviewers - such as those from Stereophile - doing YTs. Go back and re-read my posts.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My father used to call all magazines and newspapers “rags”. My father didn’t mean anything derogatory about the term, and neither do I.

It doesn't matter what you and your father think a particular word means. Words, with slight variations, have determinate and agreed meanings across dictionaries.

In the English language describing a magazine as a "rag" is derogatory.

From the online Cambridge Dictionary

rag noun [C] (NEWSPAPER)​

informal
a newspaper or magazine that is considered to be of bad quality:

He had his picture taken for some localrag.

Now that you know you misused the word "rag," and that you did not intend the meaning it actually possesses, may I suggest you delete your original post?

 

[Elliot G.]

It doesn't matter what you and your father think a particular word means. Words, with slight variations, have determinate and agreed meanings across dictionaries.

In the English language describing a magazine as a "rag" is derogatory.

From the online Cambridge Dictionary

rag noun [C] (NEWSPAPER)​

informal
a newspaper or magazine that is considered to be of bad quality:

He had his picture taken for some localrag.

Now that you know you misused the word "rag," and that you did not intend the meaning it actually possesses, may I suggest you delete your original post?

thank you Ron, Joe seems to have learned the old back step two step as he tries to redefine what he said previously. I have learned that people always redefine and change the subject when the realize they are wrong and have lost the arguement. That is of course something that my father said !
I know three or four of the YOUTUBERS and deal with them at shows. So to answer your question yes I know. I know the reviewers as well. I don't know them all but I do know many and have talked and interacted with them. DO YOU? I just spent a few days with Robert Harley have you? I had dinner and talked for a few hours with Alan Taffel have you? I was personal friends and had HP as my mentor for over 15 years did you?
It is easy to throw stones but throwing facts is just a bit more difficult.

 

[Audire]

It doesn't matter what you and your father think a particular word means. Words, with slight variations, have determinate and agreed meanings across dictionaries.

In the English language describing a magazine as a "rag" is derogatory.

From the online Cambridge Dictionary

rag noun [C] (NEWSPAPER)​

informal
a newspaper or magazine that is considered to be of bad quality:

He had his picture taken for some localrag.

Now that you know you misused the word "rag," and that you did not intend the meaning it actually possesses, may I suggest you delete your original post?

Ron,

I use many terms I grew up with in the way I grew up with them.

And you are incorrect. While I can see why someone who hasn’t read any history of printing may take it as derogatory, a short study may help:

Before the 1870s, newspapers were printed on rag paper made of cotton and linen fibers, according to Timothy Hughes Rare and Early Newspapers, a dealer in old newspapers.

That statement was printed as late as 2016. https://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2016/04/08/82802968/

To about the year 1865, newspapers, like other publications, were printed on papers composed of chemically-refined cotton or linen fibers from rags. Such paper was necessarily quite expensive.

Quality of Groundwood-Content Newsprint, 1870-1930

cool.culturalheritage.org

There’s plenty more quotes we could use.

 

[Elliot G.]

Change your partner and dosey do!

 

[Elliot G.]

I consider the mag rags - including the reviews - as purchased manufacturer advertising. I don’t see how a reviewer may be completely objective with long term loans or highly discounted purchases.

Just for context the above is the direct quote Joe. I guess you are one of those who can never admit he is wrong.

 

[Gregadd]

Its all good with me , what would the high end audio industry or any luxury industry for that matter be without magazines / reviewers .
That said , if you really want the best sound for yourself you got to do your own homework instead of relying on somebody else to do it for you

Yes but since March madness is here we can use a basketball analogy.First you gotta qualify for the tournamnt. Then the first part is essentailly elimination rounds. Magazines play a big part in what actually gets considered for purchase.

 

[Audire]

I consider the mag rags - including the reviews - as purchased manufacturer advertising. I don’t see how a reviewer may be completely objective with long term loans or highly discounted purchases.

Just for context the above is the direct quote Joe. I guess you are one of those who can never admit he is wrong.

Yes that is a direct quote and I stand by it. I consider all mag rags advertising. Look inside, they are full of them. And the reviews are advertising too. And IMO manufacturers pay for it, i.e. discounted items, long term loans, etc.

Where are the bad reviews?

And this is the best the audiophile community presently has to offer. It‘s what we presently have and IMO there’s room for improvement.

As I suggested earlier, the mag rags should go online and include videos - in the pro’s systems - and allow the reader to check and verify what the reviewer is saying. Perhaps everyone will agree with the reviewer, perhaps not. But then the discounts and long term loans wouldn’t be questioned, as the listener has the opportunity to listen for themselves.

Also maybe someone will come up with an audiophile app that’s better than YT so the listening can even be better.

 

[Audire]

Change your partner and dosey do!

Elliot I use the term “mag rag” because I grew up using it the way my father did. But if you desire to believe that I first used the phrase here and then accidentally stumbled on some real history supporting my use please go ahead. Just think of the odds of me stumbling upon the exact word “rag” used in the way my father and I use it? I guess I need to go play the lotto today.