Are equipment racks oddly the most difficult audio purchase?

[Lee]

So we now have all sorts of expensive equipment racks. They tend to be big and heavy…yet sound differences persist…

How does one buy a rack with confidence given the cost these days? Does the system having tubes or solid state matter?

How did you buy your equipment rack?

Does it matter if you have good footers?

 

[Robh3606]

In all honestly the "sound of the rack" just isn't in the equation for me. As long as it has enough room for the equipment with adequate ventilation between amps I am not worried. I have about 200Lbs plus of equipment in my rack and if that doesn't mass load it footers to me simply are not going to matter. YMMV

Rob

 

[oldvinyl]

How does one buy a rack with confidence given the cost these days?
- that's difficult since it is really hard to demo in home
- it's also difficult since it is almost impossible to compare with any other rack
- I looked at the background of the designer, read interviews, reviews and website materials to understand their objectives and
claims
- I understood the implications of the designer having worked on helicopter rotor vibration damping equipment
- assess the build quality and quality of materials
- it is a leap of faith

Does the system having tubes or solid state matter?
- yes, for me it did since I wanted a rack for my tube based phono stage and for the turntable
- another factor was the shelf height for ventilation, the rack manufacturer contacted the phono stage manufacturer to get the
height needed for adequate convection cooling

How did you buy your equipment rack?
- I contacted the manufacturer, spoke with the designer, let them know my objectives
- they spec'ed the exact stand I wanted

Does it matter if you have good footers?
- who me? love my New Balance ....
- footers helped, but only marginally so since the stand and its shelves are already well constructed
- given that my listening room is on the lower level and is on 8+ feet of concrete, footers are not as important (for isolation
from the floor)

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my approach for more than a decade has been to treat each piece of gear individually, and have a relatively generic modestly priced basic solid rack. last summer i did upgrade my rack from the 4 separate Adona racks to a more aesthetically pleasing solid wood Massif Audio rack system. i was able to sell my Adona racks so that this move did not cost much considering the size of my system. when i acquired the Massif i also went for some upscale Nordost Sort Fut footers for each rack. those were spendy.

the performance did tic up a notch and i am very pleased with the way it looks. it was a good move.

i have tubes for my phono pre and -4- tape pre's, otherwise solid state. plus turntables. my tape decks are on dedicated stands. my amps are on the floor on hot rodded active devices.

i do respect those very expensive uber extreme decoupling racks. for my system it might have reached close to 6 figures. and i think my approach equals that level of performance and my active isolation, and other passive treatments, equals or exceeds any rack performance.

there is more than one way to do things. i do still admire some of those top level racks. but those kind of purchases are for life. hard to ever sell or ship one if you had to.

 

[Lee]

my approach for more than a decade has been to treat each piece of gear individually, and have a relatively generic modestly priced basic solid rack. last summer i did upgrade my rack from the 4 separate Adona racks to a more aesthetically pleasing solid wood Massif Audio rack system. i was able to sell my Adona racks so that this move did not cost much considering the size of my system. when i acquired the Massif i also went for some upscale Nordost Sort Fut footers for each rack. those were spendy.

the performance did tic up a notch and i am very pleased with the way it looks. it was a good move.

i have tubes for my phono pre and -4- tape pre's, otherwise solid state. plus turntables. my tape decks are on dedicated stands. my amps are on the floor on hot rodded active devices.

i do respect those very expensive uber extreme decoupling racks. for my system it might have reached close to 6 figures. and i think my approach equals that level of performance and my active isolation, and other passive treatments, equals or exceeds any rack performance.

there is more than one way to do things. i do still admire some of those top level racks. but those kind of purchases are for life. hard to ever sell or ship one if you had to.

Similar to my approach, a beefy solid wood rack (BSR Woodworks) and Wilson Pedestals as footers.

 

[jeromelang]

Avoid all kinds of metal

 

[tima]

I was sent an original Silent Running Audio (SRA) Scuttle rack to review and I ended up buying it on accomodation. It was a very early edition of the Scuttle -- one of the first ones made. A few years later SRA (Kevin Tellekamp) made changes to introduce the Scuttle Mk.2. A few years after that he made even more significant changes and released the Mk.3.. He wanted to test my original Scuttle to see what shape it was in after 5+ years of use. Smart move on his part as he a) guarantees his products for life and b) he wanted to learn how well he might retrofit some of the changes made in Mk.3 to an original model that had been in use.

So he sent me the Mk.3 to review and as I do with most of my reviews did a comparison between the original and the Mk.3. This meant I had two Scuttle racks for a 'side by side' comparison. They were both of a size three high and double-wide to accomodate 6 components. You almost never see racks compared directly so it was a great opportunity. I did not actually have them side by side as having both took up too much space. I had already reviewed the original model so I knew that well -- the review was done when it was brand new. I installed the Mk.3, did my review due dilligence, moved it out, put the original model back, did more listening and note taking, then put the Mk.3 back in place. You might imagine what a pita and how time consuming it is to switch racks back and forth, twice -- I am a concientous reviewer . I ended up shipping the original back to SRA for evaluation and purchased the Mk.3, which I still have along with another single-wide Mk.3 that holds 3 components (my Lamm LP1 three-box phono stage.)



The Scuttle Mk.3 is in the foreground. You can read about the original model here and the Mk.3 here at TAB.

To speak briefly about the upstream topic of treating components individually. The SRA racks do that. The racks are much more than equipment stands -- they apply multiple SRA vibration management techniques targeted at energy management of whatever is placed on them. These are not generic racks. Each rack is custom made using SRA's Component Specific Design (CSD) which accounts for the placement of each component in a specific spot on a rack. So tubes or solid state do not matter -- each rack is built for the components that you have. No add-on footers (typically one size fits all) should be used. Change components or their arrangement and SRA supplies free updates to match with what you currently have. You can read about their CSD process in the reviews.


Here is the Mk.3 with components -- from several years back in my ARC time -- look I had a CD player!

How does one buy a rack with confidence given the cost these days?

My suggestion is to choose from an established vendor whose products are known for their vibration management efficacy. In my opinion there are two of these: Critical Mass Systems (CMS) and Silent Running Audio. If you want a simple stand to hold components off the floor, you're buying furniture -- choose what you like, just make sure the rack will hold the weight and gives adequate ventilation space around each component.

 

[Mr. Miyagi]

M

I was sent an original Silent Running Audio (SRA) Scuttle rack to review and I ended up buying it on accomodation. It was a very early edition of the Scuttle -- one of the first ones made. A few years later SRA (Kevin Tellekamp) made changes to introduce the Scuttle Mk.2. A few years after that he made even more significant changes and released the Mk.3.. He wanted to test my original Scuttle to see what shape it was in after 5+ years of use. Smart move on his part as he a) guarantees his products for life and b) he wanted to learn how well he might retrofit some of the changes made in Mk.3 to an original model that had been in use.

So he sent me the Mk.3 to review and as I do with most of my reviews did a comparison between the original and the Mk.3. This meant I had two Scuttle racks for a 'side by side' comparison. They were both of a size three high and double-wide to accomodate 6 components. You almost never see racks compared directly so it was a great opportunity. I did not actually have them side by side as having both took up too much space. I had already reviewed the original model so I knew that well -- the review was done when it was brand new. I installed the Mk.3, did my review due dilligence, moved it out, put the original model back, did more listening and note taking, then put the Mk.3 back in place. You might imagine what a pita and how time consuming it is to switch racks back and forth, twice -- I am a concientous reviewer . I ended up shipping the original back to SRA for evaluation and purchased the Mk.3, which I still have along with another single-wide Mk.3 that holds 3 components (my Lamm LP1 three-box phono stage.)

View attachment 135276

The Scuttle Mk.3 is in the foreground. You can read about the original model here and the Mk.3 here at TAB.

To speak briefly about the upstream topic of treating components individually. The SRA racks do that. The racks are much more than equipment stands -- they apply multiple SRA vibration management techniques targeted at energy management of whatever is placed on them. These are not generic racks. Each rack is custom made using SRA's Component Specific Design (CSD) which accounts for the placement of each component in a specific spot on a rack. So tubes or solid state do not matter -- each rack is built for the components that you have. No add-on footers (typically one size fits all) should be used. Change components or their arrangement and SRA supplies free updates to match with what you currently have. You can read about their CSD process in the reviews.

View attachment 135277
Here is the Mk.3 with components -- from several years back in my ARC time -- look I had a CD player!



My suggestion is to choose from an established vendor whose products are known for their vibration management efficacy. In my opinion there are two of these: Critical Mass Systems (CMS) and Silent Running Audio. If you want a simple stand to hold components off the floor, you're buying furniture -- choose what you like, just make sure the rack will hold the weight and gives adequate ventilation space around each component.

yeah , I can certainly vouch that there are more options than just critical mass and SRA.

 

[Synaxis]

I was sent an original Silent Running Audio (SRA) Scuttle rack to review and I ended up buying it on accomodation. It was a very early edition of the Scuttle -- one of the first ones made. A few years later SRA (Kevin Tellekamp) made changes to introduce the Scuttle Mk.2. A few years after that he made even more significant changes and released the Mk.3.. He wanted to test my original Scuttle to see what shape it was in after 5+ years of use. Smart move on his part as he a) guarantees his products for life and b) he wanted to learn how well he might retrofit some of the changes made in Mk.3 to an original model that had been in use.

So he sent me the Mk.3 to review and as I do with most of my reviews did a comparison between the original and the Mk.3. This meant I had two Scuttle racks for a 'side by side' comparison. They were both of a size three high and double-wide to accomodate 6 components. You almost never see racks compared directly so it was a great opportunity. I did not actually have them side by side as having both took up too much space. I had already reviewed the original model so I knew that well -- the review was done when it was brand new. I installed the Mk.3, did my review due dilligence, moved it out, put the original model back, did more listening and note taking, then put the Mk.3 back in place. You might imagine what a pita and how time consuming it is to switch racks back and forth, twice -- I am a concientous reviewer . I ended up shipping the original back to SRA for evaluation and purchased the Mk.3, which I still have along with another single-wide Mk.3 that holds 3 components (my Lamm LP1 three-box phono stage.)

View attachment 135276

The Scuttle Mk.3 is in the foreground. You can read about the original model here and the Mk.3 here at TAB.

To speak briefly about the upstream topic of treating components individually. The SRA racks do that. The racks are much more than equipment stands -- they apply multiple SRA vibration management techniques targeted at energy management of whatever is placed on them. These are not generic racks. Each rack is custom made using SRA's Component Specific Design (CSD) which accounts for the placement of each component in a specific spot on a rack. So tubes or solid state do not matter -- each rack is built for the components that you have. No add-on footers (typically one size fits all) should be used. Change components or their arrangement and SRA supplies free updates to match with what you currently have. You can read about their CSD process in the reviews.

View attachment 135277
Here is the Mk.3 with components -- from several years back in my ARC time -- look I had a CD player!



My suggestion is to choose from an established vendor whose products are known for their vibration management efficacy. In my opinion there are two of these: Critical Mass Systems (CMS) and Silent Running Audio. If you want a simple stand to hold components off the floor, you're buying furniture -- choose what you like, just make sure the rack will hold the weight and gives adequate ventilation space around each component.

Great post. Thanks for sharing!

 

[treitz3]

Avoid all kinds of metal

In specific areas of the build or completely?

Tom

 

[CJmooney]

I've observed over the years that the best sounding systems at audio shows generally have an ambitious audio rack in support. HRS, CMS, SRA, etc. They offer differing approaches to isolation, vibration control, damping etc that result in different "flavors." Equipment racks do enhance the home audio experience in my opinion and make a big difference (primarily by lowering the system noise floor and improving the solidity of imaging and expanding the sense of space). In answer to the question posed, YES, equipment racks are a difficult audio purchase because they are very expensive and require "buy in" to the designers philosophy and application of knowledge and physics. Lastly, audio racks aren't "flashy" like other components. It's kind of like showing off your Ferrari to your friends and telling them how great the wheels are, LOL. I picked HRS and have not been disappointed. Highly recommended.

 

[tima]

M

yeah , I can certainly vouch that there are more options than just critical mass and SRA.

Effectiveness counts more than mere presence in the marketplace. Which units have you had in your system?

Wax off.

 

[dcathro]

I have had (in chronological order) studio racking, Mana Acoustics, IsoBlue, and now Naim Fraims. These were all recommended to me.

One observation I have made over the years is that light stiff structures such as hardwood occasional tables or Ikea Lack tables are good as a basic reference benchmark. I have visited a lot of audiophiles who have not given enough thought or attention to equipment support which can really limit the performance.

 

[Ron Resnick]

So he sent me the Mk.3 to review and as I do with most of my reviews did a comparison between the original and the Mk.3. This meant I had two Scuttle racks for a 'side by side' comparison. They were both of a size three high and double-wide to accomodate 6 components. You almost never see racks compared directly so it was a great opportunity.

Very impressive that you had the patience to compare stands!

look I had a CD player!

It is convenient to have a CD player to play easily repeatable test tones.

My suggestion is to choose from an established vendor whose products are known for their vibration management efficacy. In my opinion there are two of these: Critical Mass Systems (CMS) and Silent Running Audio.

I think HRS is also a science-based and very respectable brand in this field.

 

[tima]

I think HRS is also a science-based and very respectable brand in this field.

They do have a good reputation and a dedicated following. So many different configurations. I have no reason to not recommend them though I just don't have enough direct experience. Racks are very difficult to assess without some means of comparison. Personally I found the need to acquire some degree of knowledge about energy/vibration to understand product claims. Quick A/B comparisons are near impossible without identical systems and I've never heard of anyone in that position.

One factor to consider when selecting a vendor is whether the company does audio racks exclusively or do they apply their skills elsewhere. Energy/vibration management applications are found throughout the industrial world. I found it fascinating that SRA implements large scale solutions in the medical and military areas. The raft design in their platforms (amp stands, etc.) is drawn directly from work done on nuclear submarines -- hence the name of his audio related company, Silent Running Audio. He has done work on the Space Shuttle cockpit for NASA and CT scanners and other hospital sized scanners to whom vibration is a nemesis. They create their own visco-elastics in-house. (You need a government security clearance to get into his factory.) The audio products are recipients of trickle-down knowledge and technology. Provenance is but one factor to consider when looking at vendors. I'm not touting SRA over another competent vendor's products, I just happen to know about them from my review research.

 

[dcathro]

They do have a good reputation and a dedicated following. So many different configurations. I have no reason to not recommend them though I just don't have enough direct experience. Racks are very difficult to assess without some means of comparison. Personally I found the need to acquire some degree of knowledge about energy/vibration to understand product claims. Quick A/B comparisons are near impossible without identical systems and I've never heard of anyone in that position.

One factor to consider when selecting a vendor is whether the company does audio racks exclusively or do they apply their skills elsewhere. Energy/vibration management applications are found throughout the industrial world. I found it fascinating that SRA implements large scale solutions in the medical and military areas. The raft design in their platforms (amp stands, etc.) is drawn directly from work done on nuclear submarines -- hence the name of his audio related company, Silent Running Audio. He has done work on the Space Shuttle cockpit for NASA and CT scanners and other hospital sized scanners to whom vibration is a nemesis. They create their own visco-elastics in-house. (You need a government security clearance to get into his factory.) The audio products are recipients of trickle-down knowledge and technology. Provenance is but one factor to consider when looking at vendors. I'm not touting SRA over another competent vendor's products, I just happen to know about them from my review research.

In my experience there is not always a correlation between advanced technology applications - NASA/military - and audio. I am often surprised how something very low tech can sound great, whilst a high tech solution may not. I have often wished that audio was logical and rules based, where one is guaranteed great sound by following a recipe.

 

[tima]

In my experience there is not always a correlation between advanced technology applications - NASA/military - and audio. I am often surprised how something very low tech can sound great, whilst a high tech solution may not. I have often wished that audio was logical and rules based, where one is guaranteed great sound by following a recipe.

Perhaps not always. Do you have examples from experience to share?

 

[Mr. Miyagi]

Effectiveness counts more than mere presence in the marketplace. Which units have you had in your system?

Wax off.

Touche. I had box furniture for sometime, which to me did the trick. I am awaiting a new Quadrapsire with brass upgrade this week. In the course of researching it’s clear there are many incredibly knowledgeable (miles ahead of me) audiophiles with astute listening skills that have all sorts of racks including using furniture with different plinths etc and i can assure that they are not suffering by not having critical mass or sra

 

[jfrech]

So we now have all sorts of expensive equipment racks. They tend to be big and heavy…yet sound differences persist…

How does one buy a rack with confidence given the cost these days? Does the system having tubes or solid state matter?

How did you buy your equipment rack?

Does it matter if you have good footers?

Hi Lee,

I just saw this thread. I'll add that my 4 Grand Prix Audio racks are something that I can never part with. They make an incredible difference in sound. I've owned 3 racks I'm my life. An Arcici Suspense, Finite Elements, now the Grand Prix Silverstone's.

Not sure where you live, if you can go listen to Grand Prix rack at a dealer or owner I'd recommend it. For me, once I heard it, I lost all reasons want to go compare to anything else. Is it the best? Can't say, do I love it, hell ya.

 

[KeithR]

Yeah, I have a very nicely built Box Furniture rack but a good local carpenter can make one at half the cost and use your feet of choice. I’m not sure the tonal wood blend used in the Box is that important.

The other thing is racks get scratched up and are difficult to maintain 9/10 condition.