advice sought, turntables $10-20k

[Gregm]

Along the lines of “get a good (enough) TT and spend the rest on the best LPs you can get”, you might also consider a Simon Yorke. It is literally plug and play, it works very well, and doesn’t require much attention from the user. I used to have one and, for a while, also had a Bergmann complete w the early airbearing arm. I cant really tell you which was better and why, but i can assure you they were both “good enough“ in the sense bonzo mentions above. The SY is the cheaper one of the two

 

[Solypsa]

This would be a fine time to acknowledge Fremer for his recognizing the Yorke and the Balance in his analog 'journey'

 

[puroagave]

The SYD S10/S7.1 'table and arm combination is still a great choice and SOTA. I have one up for sale here: https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/...d-music/161061-simon-yorke-s10-s7-1-turntable

I'm presently using a TechDAS AFIII with a Graham Phantom III and differences aren't worth writing about. The SYD table has to go to make room for my Versa Dynamics 2.0 that's in the process of a restoration. If interested in the SYD combo send me a PM, I also have a line on a SYD Aeroarm for it. Simon is alive and well and rumors of his demise (disappearance?) are greatly exaggerated.

 

[ferrari275]

wbass​

Many interesting analog front end options to choose beginning from your short list and by way of others mentioned here.

How important or beneficial is a well-implemented vacuum hold-down system?

Personally, vacuum platter hold down systems have always proved more fuss and trouble in my setup than they are worth, but to each his own.

My $20k short list -

Technics Sp10R (or perhaps a restored Sp10MkIII) with Artisan Fidelity Panzerholz plinth (Both are leaps and bounds ahead of a stock MkII) can be made for installing a pair of arms.

Kuzma Stabi R - Single to Quad tonearm setup with Kuzma 4Point arm. Value-to-performance high and agreed per gleeds comments about AF.

From your own list -

Tech Das Air Force V - If you must have a vacuum hold down feature and prefer a more relaxed presentation. (Although I see your budget has changed since the initial thread post)

"Are the Garrard 401 and SP10mk2 set-ups I own now "good enough" already? I know there are some out there who feel these vintage tables, well restored and set up, can be a platform for almost any arm or cart. Still, I'm curious if I can improve on what I already have."

There is still plenty of room left for improvement with the Garrard 401 setup you have which will take you up to your budget limit, but it is worth it if you enjoy the idler drive character and are willing to explore an end of the road solution. Your Sp10MkII would need a great deal of modifications and upgrades to hear any difference at which point you are really better off investing in a new Sp10R or MkIII instead either of which are fundamental upgrades.

Are there other factors or pros and cons to the above I'm missing?

Many factors are at play (no pun intended) In truth, all of the turntable recommendations mentioned are unique, each in their own way in terms of inherent design and musical character. You simply need to narrow down your priorities first and then make a move.

 

[wbass]

Very much like the looks of the SP10R. Still unsure whether vacuum hold-down is a must-have feature or not. Makes a certain degree of horse sense, but, then again, maybe good old-fashioned gravity is enough. Also, almost all of my LPs are flat, luckily.

I do like the relative simplicity of mounting different tonearms on the TechDAS tables.

 

[Argonaut]

BERGMANN GALDER AIRBEARING TURNTABLE mit Vacuum Hold Down , a touch over your limit if you stretch to it.​

 

[bonzo75]

BERGMANN GALDER AIRBEARING TURNTABLE mit Vacuum Hold Down , a touch over your limit if you stretch to it.​

Don't shout

 

[Argonaut]

Don't shout

Cut and paste. From the product page!

 

[BillK]

Why not the VPI HW-40?

 

[wbass]

Why not the VPI HW-40?

HW-40 looks great, but I'd like to mount two tonearms. Also, seems like VPIs are built to use their arms, and I'd like to stick with my Schroeder and Kuzma.

 

[BillK]

That makes sense.

The VPI Avenger would be a better choice if you want multiple arms, and I know VPI does cut custom arm boards.

 

[wbass]

That makes sense.

The VPI Avenger would be a better choice if you want multiple arms, and I know VPI does cut custom arm boards.

Also a great looking table. For whatever reason, the forums I frequent (here and SBAF) don't seem to rep the Avenger models much. I'm sure they're great though. If I ever came across one used, I'd surely be tempted.

 

[lscangus]

Very much like the looks of the SP10R. Still unsure whether vacuum hold-down is a must-have feature or not. Makes a certain degree of horse sense, but, then again, maybe good old-fashioned gravity is enough. Also, almost all of my LPs are flat, luckily.

I do like the relative simplicity of mounting different tonearms on the TechDAS tables.

I own the AF5P with the 3012R, 4point coming soon. on the AF, vacuum must be on, I experienced much more musical information and details, sharp imagery and fine texture with the vacuum on ( without record clamp ).

The armboard are very sturdy, I am not sure if it will perform better on a separate tower or mounted differently, TechDAS charge you ( 1200USD ? ) an arm and a leg for one ( reasonable as they have to design them specifically for each arm ). But you can always get one made locally in a machine shop. They can swing back and forth so spindle to pivot distance can be adjusted easily.

 

[gabweb]

Yes, thank you, the AF3/AF5 mounting system is what I meant.

Good to know. The AF5 and Stabi R are basically what I've boiled my hunt for a next table down to. The simple, solid design of the Stabi R appeals. As does the vacuum hold-down on the AF5.

That's interesting about Artisan Fidelity.

As a Stabi R + 4p 11 happy owner, instead of the hold-down vacuum in the techdas, you can add the outer ring from kuzma (I have one)
Very efficient and easy to use besides the regular clamp.

 

[XV-1]

If it were my $$

Technics SP10R + Acoustand 2 arm plinth.

And keep the Garrard as a different flavour.

A friend of mine has a AF3 original and its very good. Vacuum works perfectly and is quiet.

I still prefer the ergonomics of my SP10mk3 with its super fast start / stop.

 

[cuntigh]

No vote for the Vertere SG or RG ? It’s been said to be so musically correct. Maybe it looks too pretty to be serious ?

 

[gleeds]

I think I posted earlier saying what an incredible time to be buying a vinyl rig in this or any price range! Love the cosmetics of the Vertere and Tourjan knows what he is doing. That said, I keep coming back to the idea that a Kuzma R with a 4Point is impossible to beat! I did not know Kuzma offers an outer ring. Nice....

 

[lscangus]

No vote for the Vertere SG or RG ? It’s been said to be so musically correct. Maybe it looks too pretty to be serious ?

I did listen to the Vertere, they are musical and easy to listen to and very forgiving. They are great but it depends on what you are looking for.

 

[cuntigh]

Can you develop please .? Its intriguing.

 

[lscangus]

Can you develop please .? Its intriguing.

If you are looking for something very analytical and wants every single bit of information extracted from the vinyl, then it may not be the best TT setup for you. Just my impression and may not be 100% correct. But I do like them, a lot.