Affordable ethernet filters

[ssfas]

I know it's rude to quite oneself but I wanted to bump this in case @ssfas missed it as I'm confused as to the current networked audio chain at Ssfas Towers.

Fibre for the hifi. I have a parallel CAT7 that connects into a wireless access point in the music room.

Besides a 2-channel system in my music room, I have 6 wireless speaker/lights in the ceiling. They produce a high quality spacial effect with some clever DSP. They are Roon Ready, operate up to 24/192 PCM and go down to about 40Hz (-6dB). I have them all over the place. I use 7 as a cinema sound system using Apple TV+, I even have them in the bathroom. My wife likes them because they have in-built microphones, Alexa and Amazon HD onboard, so she can play music by voice commands rather than having to use the Roon app.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

That's very philosophical, but ethernet is designed to guarantee perfect transmission of data. It is governed by international standards and protocols that go back to the 1970s. The data gets there 100% as long as you have enough bandwidth.

The problem is that "noise" coming down wire into your streamer/DAC can affect sound quality. The most likely candidates are EMF from switches and RFI from wireless transmitters. You can also get 50/60Hz harmonics from nearby power cables. Fibre completely eliminates these problems. It conducts electricity as much as a banana or a stick of spaghetti. The benefits of a fibre bridge have been appreciated for at least 10 years.

You can go for this for about $200 or System Optique for $3,000. There's a UK company that does one for £6,200, about $8,000.

Reiki Audio

Reiki Audio Superswitch and Optical Bridge, Master/Servant and PSU Variants

www.reikiaudio.com

This

. View attachment 142740

Went that route and the difference in SQ using the EtherRegen and Sonore Optical Deluxe with quality Finisar FSP and Owens Corning fiber is dramatic. No way your $200.00 will come close. Period. $1400.00 and well worth it. I have to say that I am sure the same can be said for Nigel’s Reiki system. Now let’s get back to regular programming.

 

[ssfas]

Went that route and the difference in SQ using the EtherRegen and Sonore Optical Deluxe with quality Finisar FSP and Owens Corning fiber is dramatic. No way your $200.00 will come close. Period. $1400.00 and well worth it. I have to say that I am sure the same can be said for Nigel’s Reiki system. Now let’s get back to regular programming.

There is a similar thread on the dCS forum. A few people use EtherRegen and Sonore, some claim an improvement and some not, but most use $50 or less FMC's, there is mention of a few cheap LAN isolators and one chap uses the SoTM iso-Cat7 that @NigelB uses.

Any benefit to an EtherRegen?

Thank you @John_Gallup for your detailed answer! Very interesting! I’m also using the etherRegen with a fiber connection. The biggest improvement in the whole ethernet process was to add a Farad Super3 with orange fuse to the eR. I had a Keces p8 with a slight improvement in regards to the PS...

dcs.community

 

[Republicoftexas69]

There is a similar thread on the dCS forum. A few people use EtherRegen and Sonore, some claim an improvement and some not, but most use $50 or less FMC's, there is mention of a few cheap LAN isolators and one chap uses the SoTM iso-Cat7 that @NigelB uses.

Any benefit to an EtherRegen?

Thank you @John_Gallup for your detailed answer! Very interesting! I’m also using the etherRegen with a fiber connection. The biggest improvement in the whole ethernet process was to add a Farad Super3 with orange fuse to the eR. I had a Keces p8 with a slight improvement in regards to the PS...

dcs.community

Okay, then go cheap…. Enjoy.

 

[kennyb123]

There is a similar thread on the dCS forum. A few people use EtherRegen and Sonore, some claim an improvement and some not, but most use $50 or less FMC's, there is mention of a few cheap LAN isolators and one chap uses the SoTM iso-Cat7 that @NigelB uses.

It shouldn’t be surprising to see differing opinions amongst those posting to audio forums. The “why” matters much more.

I think it’s best to not place a high regard on an opinion unless one can be confident that others are likely to arrive at the same opinion if their musical goals align with the goals of the person expressing that opinion. Consistent patterns tend to emerge when one does that.

 

[ssfas]

Okay, then go cheap…. Enjoy.

It shouldn’t be surprising to see differing opinions amongst those posting to audio forums. The “why” matters much more.

I think it’s best to not place a high regard on an opinion unless one can be confident that others are likely to arrive at the same opinion if their musical goals align with the goals of the person expressing that opinion. Consistent patterns tend to emerge when one does that.

It was interesting from the perspective that they were all transmitting data to the same brand of streamer/DAC. Money shouldn’t be an issue if you have a DCS product. Lots of people were using a $200 set up and one guy seems to have spent about $20,000 including a dedicated power conditioner. Most people were pretty indifferent, but the $20,000 guy was convinced that every last cable and power supply made an individual and incremental improvement.

It is a curious topic because when a reviewer looked at a noise reduction product 10 years ago they predicted it would be an audiofile marketing opportunity, even though you could install a fibre bridge and LAN isolator for about $250 10 years ago, 10 years before that and you still can today. So you now have audiofile products costing up to $8000, even though they are based around a $30 switch, and the majority of products are in the $500-$1000 bracket making them affordable peace of mind, whether or not they have any benefit at all.

People go on about expensive branded transceivers, but fibre with SC connectors can be plugged into FMC's without the need for transceivers at all, which is why I use LC/SC cable. Transceivers only exist to give flexibility to attach different types of connector. You don’t need that flexibility if you get the correct device in the first place.

Most FMCs are ±$50 because they are established tech mass-produced with extreme efficiency and sold at low profit margins. Sonore and EtherRegen are small batch, struggle to get parts, have had major supply issues, and neither are available in the UK or EU.

In answer to this thread, if $20,000 is affordable for your ethernet filtering and it gives you peace of mind, go for it.

 

[NigelB]

one chap uses the SoTM iso-Cat7 that @NigelB uses.

He doesn't, actually.

 

[NigelB]

It is a curious topic because when a reviewer looked at a noise reduction product 10 years ago they predicted it would be an audiofile marketing opportunity, even though you could install a fibre bridge and LAN isolator for about $250 10 years ago, 10 years before that and you still can today. So you now have audiofile products costing up to $8000, even though they are based around a $30 switch, and the majority of products are in the $500-$1000 bracket making them affordable peace of mind, whether or not they have any benefit at all.

You appear to be suggesting three things here, all of which are misguided in my opinion and experience:

1) that what we see with the development of audiophile switches/filters/FMCs etc is purely a marketing opportunity;

Sure, it's a marketing opportunity and there are examples of lazy rebadging going on to exploit this, but the wider picture is that there is a huge amount of time being invested in actual R&D, in actual prototyping, in actual listening and then in manufacturing

2) that if two devices use the same circuitry as a $30 switch then they'll sound the same as a $30 switch (ditto a $50 FMC);

Just plain wrong. The circuitry is not the magic part of any of these devices, it's what you do to, with and around the circuitry which makes the sonic difference between a $30 switch and real one worth investing hard-earned money in for so many audiophiles.

3) that audiophiles are gullible, seeking affordable placebo peace of mind.

I don't know any of these guys. All the folk I know who have explored the space are intelligent and committed to evaluating all the options within their affordability envelope. Understandably, with fibre connection to your own sound system, you haven't spent much time exploring these devices yourself and you're clearly happy with the sound you get from your house-wide ceiling speakers as well as your 2-channel, which is great. Enjoy

 

[Republicoftexas69]

It was interesting from the perspective that they were all transmitting data to the same brand of streamer/DAC. Money shouldn’t be an issue if you have a DCS product. Lots of people were using a $200 set up and one guy seems to have spent about $20,000 including a dedicated power conditioner. Most people were pretty indifferent, but the $20,000 guy was convinced that every last cable and power supply made an individual and incremental improvement.

It is a curious topic because when a reviewer looked at a noise reduction product 10 years ago they predicted it would be an audiofile marketing opportunity, even though you could install a fibre bridge and LAN isolator for about $250 10 years ago, 10 years before that and you still can today. So you now have audiofile products costing up to $8000, even though they are based around a $30 switch, and the majority of products are in the $500-$1000 bracket making them affordable peace of mind, whether or not they have any benefit at all.

People go on about expensive branded transceivers, but fibre with SC connectors can be plugged into FMC's without the need for transceivers at all, which is why I use LC/SC cable. Transceivers only exist to give flexibility to attach different types of connector. You don’t need that flexibility if you get the correct device in the first place.

Most FMCs are ±$50 because they are established tech mass-produced with extreme efficiency and sold at low profit margins. Sonore and EtherRegen are small batch, struggle to get parts, have had major supply issues, and neither are available in the UK or EU.

In answer to this thread, if $20,000 is affordable for your ethernet filtering and it gives you peace of mind, go for it.

Please the point was if a $200.00 FMC works for you then go for it. I tried it and in my system it was not good enough. Your system it must work great. $1400.00 is not $20k. Time to move on, Enjoy your day.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Can we get back on track about Filters now. This thread has been hijacked.

 

[ssfas]

You appear to be suggesting three things here, all of which are misguided in my opinion and experience:

1) that what we see with the development of audiophile switches/filters/FMCs etc is purely a marketing opportunity;

Sure, it's a marketing opportunity and there are examples of lazy rebadging going on to exploit this, but the wider picture is that there is a huge amount of time being invested in actual R&D, in actual prototyping, in actual listening and then in manufacturing

2) that if two devices use the same circuitry as a $30 switch then they'll sound the same as a $30 switch (ditto a $50 FMC);

Just plain wrong. The circuitry is not the magic part of any of these devices, it's what you do to, with and around the circuitry which makes the sonic difference between a $30 switch and real one worth investing hard-earned money in for so many audiophiles.

3) that audiophiles are gullible, seeking affordable placebo peace of mind.

I don't know any of these guys. All the folk I know who have explored the space are intelligent and committed to evaluating all the options within their affordability envelope. Understandably, with fibre connection to your own sound system, you haven't spent much time exploring these devices yourself and you're clearly happy with the sound you get from your house-wide ceiling speakers as well as your 2-channel, which is great. Enjoy

The irony is that I've spent quite a bit of money over 15 years of streaming, tried all sorts of things, and for me by far the most effective result is cheap and could have been installed 10 years ago.

If you survey the offerings, you see some are designed towards the manufacturer's own system principles (Innuos, Taiko, SoTM), some are more flexible (Melco - an upgrade of their own mass-market board) and some are upgrades of good cheap switch boards, like the $30 Zyxel SG1200-8 and the $140 QNAP QSW-2014-2S.

It doesn't take long to realise why these choices are made and most people are using the same donor boards. The QNAP is very well made 10gpbs switch. The Buffalo is programmable. I have a Zyxel SG1200-8, I put my meter on it and it is incredibly quiet, emits hardly any noise, whereas the standard Netgear GS108 is very noisy.

A lot of the upgrades are very similar: - power supplies - voltage regulators - OXCO clocks - Casework

With Etherregen and Sonore their claims are ALL ABOUT the circuity. They go to the trouble of explaining all the functions and high quality parts. I was going to get one from Sonore to test the magic, they just aren't available. The Etherregen's main problem is what they don't do around the circuitry, because many people complain it gets very hot and some stick external heat sinks on it. That's bad design.

It is easy to see which ones are the result of R&D and which are the clones. From what I understand the Chord, NuPrime, ThunderData and several others are the same unit in different boxes, but people still compare them. I tried the Chord EE-1, actually bought one, and sold it soon afterwards.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

The irony is that I've spent quite a bit of money over 15 years of streaming, tried all sorts of things, and for me by far the most effective result is cheap and could have been installed 10 years ago.

If you survey the offerings, you see some are designed towards the manufacturer's own system principles (Innuos, Taiko, SoTM), some are more flexible (Melco - an upgrade of their own mass-market board) and some are upgrades of good cheap switch boards, like the $30 Zyxel SG1200-8 and the $140 QNAP QSW-2014-2S.

It doesn't take long to realise why these choices are made and most people are using the same donor boards. The QNAP is very well made 10gpbs switch. The Buffalo is programmable. I have a Zyxel SG1200-8, I put my meter on it and it is incredibly quiet, emits hardly any noise, whereas the standard Netgear GS108 is very noisy.

A lot of the upgrades are very similar: - power supplies - voltage regulators - OXCO clocks - Casework

With Etherregen and Sonore their claims are ALL ABOUT the circuity. They go to the trouble of explaining all the functions and high quality parts. I was going to get one from Sonore to test the magic, they just aren't available. The Etherregen's main problem is what they don't do around the circuitry, because many people complain it gets very hot and some stick external heat sinks on it. That's bad design.

It is easy to see which ones are the result of R&D and which are the clones. From what I understand the Chord, NuPrime, ThunderData and several others are the same unit in different boxes, but people still compare them. I tried the Chord EE-1, actually bought one, and sold it soon afterwards.

Hey SSFAS let’s get back on track. Create your own thread or move this to the mid-priced switch thread.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

The Etherregen's main problem is what they don't do around the circuitry, because many people complain it gets very hot and some stick external heat sinks on it. That's bad design.

...this assertion is incorrect and has been dealt with by @Superdad over-and-over again elsewhere.

Sorry @Republicoftexas69 ...back to the topic. Carry on.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

...this assertion is incorrect and has been dealt with by @Superdad over-and-over again elsewhere.

Sorry @Republicoftexas69 ...back to the topic. Carry on.

All good Mark I had to fight the urge to respond to this false claim also.
I am throwing in the towel as this thread is so far off the rails it will never get turned back.

 

[kennyb123]

...this assertion is incorrect and has been dealt with by @Superdad over-and-over again elsewhere.

He has been unwittingly demonstrating which approaches should absolutely be avoided when selecting network components that bring sound quality improvements.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

He has been unwittingly demonstrating which approaches should absolutely be avoided when selecting network components that bring sound quality improvements.

Amen Kenny.

 

[treitz3]

Those that don't know? Well, they don't know they don't know. You know?

Some have discovered beyond. That's a wonderful thing (sonically speaking).

The Amir contrast was not meant to be a compliment BTW. I think I'll slide out myself...

Tom

 

[NigelB]

I think I'll slide out myself...

Consider me slid too.

 

[Synaxis]

Those that don't know? Well, they don't know they don't know. You know?

Some have discovered beyond. That's a wonderful thing (sonically speaking).

The Amir contrast was not meant to be a compliment BTW. I think I'll slide out myself...

Tom

Some people just want to spend their lives arguing over anything on a forum rather than simply listening to music.

If you said the sky was blue they would argue with you about it for no reason.

I agree with you people like that are just not worth wasting any energy on.