Problem is that multicast traffic goes to every device unless efforts are made to restrict it. Multicast is how services let devices know how to discover them. Every device, for example, gets to hear that a network printer can accept print jobs. A properly configured VLAN can keep messages like these from reaching our servers. Less activity at a network interface can mean lower noise.
Problem is that multicast traffic goes to every device unless efforts are made to restrict it. Multicast is how services let devices know how to discover them. Every device, for example, gets to hear that a network printer can accept print jobs. A properly configured VLAN can keep messages like these from reaching our servers. Less activity at a network interface can mean lower noise.
Do you really think that connecting a printer to my switch would affect sound quality in my system? I don't.
I have a TV and Chromecast Audio puck connected to the A-side of my EtherRegen. My streamer is connected to the B-side. I've tested a couple of times; disconnecting the other devices from the network has no impact on the sound through the streamer. I do not believe that VLAN or QoS would have an impact either, for sonics or reliability IN MY SYSTEM. I understand they can matter to an enterprise with hundreds or thousands of devices and users.
My NAS has an interesting feature. I can see the load on the two ethernet links. I teed up my heaviest songs, DSF at 11,289,600 Hz sampling frequency and 32 bit @ 352.8kHz. Traffic climbed to 3Mbps for a second while loading a song, then dropped to 2Mbps while the song played. With CD quality, the load is 100 to 200kbps. Music really is a very light load.
The thread title suggests noise is the main thing we need to manage to improve sound quality and this is spot on. The presence or absence of RFI noise on the wires carrying digital data has no effect at all on that data, and this seems to successfully throw a good few people off the scent, particularly those with corporate network experience whose whole world has been about moving data packets around.
So for the audiophile, VLANs and stuff are interesting but a distraction. As is any discussion of the sonic advantages of managed over unmanaged switches.
Even the most basic generic switch connected by a 2-3 feet / 0.5-1m unshielded cable to their streamer will give pause for thought to the switch cynic who hasn't tried it yet.
...agree with above, and well said IMO, although I might modify to add last/close-to-server or streamer switch on good power will go a long way toward great sound.
The thread title suggests noise is the main thing we need to manage to improve sound quality and this is spot on. The presence or absence of RFI noise on the wires carrying digital data has no effect at all on that data, and this seems to successfully throw a good few people off the scent, particularly those with corporate network experience whose whole world has been about moving data packets around.
So for the audiophile, VLANs and stuff are interesting but a distraction. As is any discussion of the sonic advantages of managed over unmanaged switches.
Even the most basic generic switch connected by a 2-3 feet / 0.5-1m unshielded cable to their streamer will give pause for thought to the switch cynic who hasn't tried it yet.
...agree with above, and well said IMO, although I might modify to add last/close-to-server or streamer switch on good power will go a long way toward great sound.
I didn’t say anything about connecting a printer to a switch. My comment was made only to address what I quoted from what you said in post 180, The network adapter on our streamers does have traffic sent to it that isn’t addressed specifically to it. Cutting that down or eliminating it has the potential to improve sound quality, but many factors come into play as to whether one can hear a difference from this. The better the job one has done at reducing the noise floor, the more likely one will hear an improvement.
And it’s not about just what is connected to the same unmanaged switch as our streamers. Nearly every device in our home network can be sending multicast - and switches make sure that every device can receive this traffic. In my home, it’s at least 3 TVs, two Macs, a printer, an NVidia Shield, a NAS, 2 AV receivers that can be constantly letting every other device know that they are hosting one or more service over the network. It adds up.
I haven’t tried to implement a VLAN simply because I’m too lazy. Multicast exists to achieve “zero-configuration networking”. Without it service can’t be found so they would need to be manually configured.
Image for the sake of argument you have a modem and a switch coming off it serving the devices around your property. Assume that switch has an SFP port and you have a streamer that has an SFP port, for example Linn, Lumin, Melco, Taiko etc. You run a fibre cable from the switch to the streamer. Your streamer buffers the data and it is reclocked before being processed by your DAC. Would you have a perfectly clean signal path? What could possibly go wrong?
Image for the sake of argument you have a modem and a switch coming off it serving the devices around your property. Assume that switch has an SFP port and you have a streamer that has an SFP port, for example Linn, Lumin, Melco, Taiko etc. You run a fibre cable from the switch to the streamer. Your streamer buffers the data and it is reclocked before being processed by your DAC. Would you have a perfectly clean signal path? What could possibly go wrong?
Every system moves towards a greater state of disorder. Said another way, no system can do something perfectly. Harm is still done with fiber, it’s just that the harm may be less than observed with other systems.
Every system moves towards a greater state of disorder. Said another way, no system can do something perfectly. Harm is still done with fiber, it’s just that the harm may be less than observed with other systems.
I had a ransomware attack on my QNAP. Thankfully I have data backup but it took several hours to restore because I had to take out the SSD drives are hard reformat them in a caddy. I use Bitdefender network security to protect my data and two-factor authentication for access. The basic rule for servers is to delete the default Admin account because that's the one that gets attacked!
Every system moves towards a greater state of disorder. Said another way, no system can do something perfectly. Harm is still done with fiber, it’s just that the harm may be less than observed with other systems.
Indeed. Fibre/fiber is perfectly noise-free until it hits something where it needs to be converted back to an electrical signal and this back-conversion process is typically noisy. Measures can be taken (choice of FMC, choice of SFP, etc) but when compared directly with copper it often (not always) turns out that people prefer the copper.
If I had a streamer with SFP port in, I wouldn't use that port as I wouldn't want the noise of the conversion going on inside my streamer. I'd use an external FMC into an RJ45 port. But that's just me.
Indeed. Fibre/fiber is perfectly noise-free until it hits something where it needs to be converted back to an electrical signal and this back-conversion process is typically noisy. Measures can be taken (choice of FMC, choice of SFP, etc) but when compared directly with copper it often (not always) turns out that people prefer the copper.
If I had a streamer with SFP port in, I wouldn't use that port as I wouldn't want the noise of the conversion going on inside my streamer. I'd use an external FMC into an RJ45 port. But that's just me.
I had a ransomware attack on my QNAP. Thankfully I have data backup but it took several hours to restore because I had to take out the SSD drives are hard reformat them in a caddy. I use Bitdefender network security to protect my data and two-factor authentication for access. The basic rule for servers is to delete the default Admin account because that's the one that gets attacked!
EDIT: sorry, just spotted "Two Belden BJ CAT6a cables joined by a EMO EN-70e LAN isolator feed my streamer" above and that your streamer is an Innuos Pulsar. I'm a little confused as to where the "25m copper ethernet AQ Pearl CAT7" is in the chain. Please could you clarify the chain leading to your Pulsar, including what length the two Cat 6A's are? Thank you.
I know it's rude to quite oneself but I wanted to bump this in case @ssfas missed it as I'm confused as to the current networked audio chain at Ssfas Towers.
Every system moves towards a greater state of disorder. Said another way, no system can do something perfectly. Harm is still done with fiber, it’s just that the harm may be less than observed with other systems.
That's very philosophical, but ethernet is designed to guarantee perfect transmission of data. It is governed by international standards and protocols that go back to the 1970s. The data gets there 100% as long as you have enough bandwidth.
The problem is that "noise" coming down wire into your streamer/DAC can affect sound quality. The most likely candidates are EMF from switches and RFI from wireless transmitters. You can also get 50/60Hz harmonics from nearby power cables. Fibre completely eliminates these problems. It conducts electricity as much as a banana or a stick of spaghetti. The benefits of a fibre bridge have been appreciated for at least 10 years.
You can go for this for about $200 or System Optique for $3,000. There's a UK company that does one for £6,200, about $8,000.
www.reikiaudio.com
