I am very curious about ethernet filtering. I have experimented with several different setups. I am not sure that noise alone is what is causing the changes. In one setup I tried there were 2 switches separated by a fiber conversion in-between (router->switch->audio-dedicated switch->fiber conversion box->audio-dedicated switch->DAC). I found that different SFP plugs all sounded quite different.
Apologies if this is deemed to be off-topic. I raise the note because I wonder if more than just noise cleanup is occurring in the ethernet filter/
The back conversion of optical to electrical signal can be quite noisy; the choice of FMC and choice of SFP have an impact here.
Some SFPs are noisier than others and if you poke around you will find a sort of consensus (well, it's hifi: we won't ever achieve total consensus!) that the Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL is one of the quieter ones.
Perhaps more important is the choice of FMC because of the number of factors at play in its design: does it have noise-generating LEDs which you can't switch off? On a switch, I'd be looking for no or few ventilation holes to stop radiated RFI reaching the circuitry but on an FMC I think I be more concerned about the RFI generated inside the case getting out...
Different power supplies can make an audible difference, so even if the signal coming over the fibre/fiber is noise-free (and it always is), changing the PSU on an upstream FMC can make a real contribution to sound quality.
I am very curious about ethernet filtering. I have experimented with several different setups. I am not sure that noise alone is what is causing the changes. In one setup I tried there were 2 switches separated by a fiber conversion in-between (router->switch->audio-dedicated switch->fiber conversion box->audio-dedicated switch->DAC). I found that different SFP plugs all sounded quite different.
As @NigelB stated, the FMC, power supply and SFP all affect sound quality, especially the final conversion, which is downstream from the optical fiber cable.
Your post is not off-topic. Most manufacturers of LAN Isolators recommend to install it as the last link before the streamer. If optical conversion were perfect, there would be no need for a LAN Isolator, but many audiophiles find it is beneficial. The filters I tried (Sellarz LNF-C8G, iFi iSilencer, Network Acoustics Muon) were a compromise in my main system, so I use optical exclusively. with top quality FMCs and SFPs. I use filters in my secondary systems and they are effective there.
Q.What about fiber-optic interfaces? Don’t these block everything? A.In the case of a pure optical input (zero metal connection), this does block leakage current, but it does not block phase-noise affects. The optical connection is like any other isolator: jitter on the input is transmitted down the fiber and shows up at the receiver. If the receiver reclocks the data with a local clock, you still have the effects of the ground plane-noise from the data causing threshold changes on the reclocking circuit, thus overlaying on top of the local clock.
As @NigelB stated, the FMC, power supply and SFP all affect sound quality, especially the final conversion, which is downstream from the optical fiber cable.
Your post is not off-topic. Most manufacturers of LAN Isolators recommend to install it as the last link before the streamer. If optical conversion were perfect, there would be no need for a LAN Isolator, but many audiophiles find it is beneficial. The filters I tried (Sellarz LNF-C8G, iFi iSilencer, Network Acoustics Muon) were a compromise in my main system, so I use optical exclusively. with top quality FMCs and SFPs. I use filters in my secondary systems and they are effective there.
Q.What about fiber-optic interfaces? Don’t these block everything? A.In the case of a pure optical input (zero metal connection), this does block leakage current, but it does not block phase-noise affects. The optical connection is like any other isolator: jitter on the input is transmitted down the fiber and shows up at the receiver. If the receiver reclocks the data with a local clock, you still have the effects of the ground plane-noise from the data causing threshold changes on the reclocking circuit, thus overlaying on top of the local clock.
I went down the switch rabbit hole a while back and bought most of the switches everyone was talking about from Cisco to Pang modded , Ether Regen, and Jcat m12. I even did new clocks and ultra low noise power supplies in some. While I still use the Ether regen I discovered industrial switches and now use 2 M12 style switches from Korenix before my Ether regen.
-Briefly returning to DHT4ME’s recommendation of the Korenix Jetnet 3006-M12 switch as an affordable filter: I can confirm that it makes a positive difference in my system. For $20 plus shipping via eBay (and power from a spare Teradak 24v lps), the stock Korenix takes clarity up a notch when installed just upstream of my ER.
The back conversion of optical to electrical signal can be quite noisy; the choice of FMC and choice of SFP have an impact here.
Some SFPs are noisier than others and if you poke around you will find a sort of consensus (well, it's hifi: we won't ever achieve total consensus!) that the Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL is one of the quieter ones.
Perhaps more important is the choice of FMC because of the number of factors at play in its design: does it have noise-generating LEDs which you can't switch off? On a switch, I'd be looking for no or few ventilation holes to stop radiated RFI reaching the circuitry but on an FMC I think I be more concerned about the RFI generated inside the case getting out...
Different power supplies can make an audible difference, so even if the signal coming over the fibre/fiber is noise-free (and it always is), changing the PSU on an upstream FMC can make a real contribution to sound quality.
The setup I preferred most was: Incoming ethernet from main switch and router->Fiber Converter using Finisar (the one most recomended in the SFP thread)->Cisco Catalyst switch->Cisco Catalyst switch->DAC.
The above setup was the best combination of warmth and dynamics for my system.
When I put the fiber converter as the last link before the DAC I found the sound to be very crisp, clean, detailed and thin.
Note that the system was (I am turning it over currently) somewhat cool and analytical to begin with. (MSB Select II -> Boulder 3010 -> Boulder 3060 -> Wilson Alexx V
The setup I preferred most was: Incoming ethernet from main switch and router->Fiber Converter using Finisar (the one most recomended in the SFP thread)->Cisco Catalyst switch->Cisco Catalyst switch->DAC.
The above setup was the best combination of warmth and dynamics for my system.
When I put the fiber converter as the last link before the DAC I found the sound to be very crisp, clean, detailed and thin.
Note that the system was (I am turning it over currently) somewhat cool and analytical to begin with. (MSB Select II -> Boulder 3010 -> Boulder 3060 -> Wilson Alexx V
That is all part of the process finding the combination that works best in your system. Synergy is the key and what works for me may or may not be right for you.
The setup I preferred most was: Incoming ethernet from main switch and router->Fiber Converter using Finisar (the one most recomended in the SFP thread)->Cisco Catalyst switch->Cisco Catalyst switch->DAC.
The above setup was the best combination of warmth and dynamics for my system.
When I put the fiber converter as the last link before the DAC I found the sound to be very crisp, clean, detailed and thin.
Note that the system was (I am turning it over currently) somewhat cool and analytical to begin with. (MSB Select II -> Boulder 3010 -> Boulder 3060 -> Wilson Alexx V
Dan (@audiobomber) and I have both done some FSP rolling and we have very similar network setup's, on his recommendation I have a FTL1318PBTL connected to my Sonore Optical Deluxe v2 and the FTLX1475D3BTL connected to my EtherRegen. The sound is detailed with body, depth great mids and wider SS. Not thin at all.
Dan (@audiobomber) and I have both done some FSP rolling and we have very similar network setup's, on his recommendation I have a FTL1318PBTL connected to my Sonore Optical Deluxe v2 and the FTLX1475D3BTL connected to my EtherRegen. The sound is detailed with body, depth great mids and wider SS. Not thin at all.
The Finisar did not create thinness. It was only when the fiber converter was the last thing before the DAC. In fact, the Finisar SFP module was the best of the bunch I tried. And, I tried quite a few from FS.com stuff to Amazon Chinese ones to Cisco to Juniper to Finisar.
The Finisar did not create thinness. It was only when the fiber converter was the last thing before the DAC. In fact, the Finisar SFP module was the best of the bunch I tried. And, I tried quite a few from FS.com stuff to Amazon Chinese ones to Cisco to Juniper to Finisar.
Well just sharing my experience. The Ether Regen is the final connection before going into my Innuos Zenith MKIII. My DAC is Less Loss Echo's End. Have a nice evening.
The Finisar did not create thinness. It was only when the fiber converter was the last thing before the DAC. In fact, the Finisar SFP module was the best of the bunch I tried. And, I tried quite a few from FS.com stuff to Amazon Chinese ones to Cisco to Juniper to Finisar.
In the next couple weeks I will setup the new Horizon DAC I recently bought. I am also planning to try an ethernet conditioner given the notes on this thread. I'll share my experiences once I have gone through enough permutations.
In the next couple weeks I will setup the new Horizon DAC I recently bought. I am also planning to try an ethernet conditioner given the notes on this thread. I'll share my experiences once I have gone through enough permutations.
A couple of comments a propos of nothing: Etherregen materially benefits from
1 good LPS
2 high quality 10M clocking
3 highest quality -short!,- cat 8 cable
4 using an Acoustic Revive Ethernet terminator
Conversely, FMCs need top quality power supplies and optical components
The setup I preferred most was: Incoming ethernet from main switch and router->Fiber Converter using Finisar (the one most recomended in the SFP thread)->Cisco Catalyst switch->Cisco Catalyst switch->DAC.
The above setup was the best combination of warmth and dynamics for my system.
When I put the fiber converter as the last link before the DAC I found the sound to be very crisp, clean, detailed and thin.
Note that the system was (I am turning it over currently) somewhat cool and analytical to begin with. (MSB Select II -> Boulder 3010 -> Boulder 3060 -> Wilson Alexx V
Agreed re your sequence. I know a good few folk who let the optical break/bridge do the heavy lifting and then the only noise the switch has to deal with is the noise generated/picked up by the FMC.
-Briefly returning to DHT4ME’s recommendation of the Korenix Jetnet 3006-M12 switch as an affordable filter: I can confirm that it makes a positive difference in my system. For $20 plus shipping via eBay (and power from a spare Teradak 24v lps), the stock Korenix takes clarity up a notch when installed just upstream of my ER.
Of the few that I am familiar with, I would rank it above a properly grounded Netgear GS108 with iFi power and both the Cisco Catalyst and Meraki models with decent external LPS, which I respect and still use. Unlike DHT4ME, I don't think it equals ER because I sometimes hear more of an "edge" from Korenix at this point compared to UpTone v1. I've had it for one week.
