American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Looks like you are having to get the CH phono again for that one.
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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I ran into this video showing different sound of a Bosendorfer vs Steinway.


I feel the tone of the Universe Premium is more like a Steinway and the Optimum is more like a Bosendorfer..the upright model of Bosendofer would even better represent. The Premium has more vibrancy in tone which is more similar to Opus1. The Optimum seems to round or coat softness to images . The word nostalgic comes to mind.

I find many things contradict to what Richard Mak reported. This could change once my Optimum has more time on it. My Optimum is a 4 ohm his is a 1 ohm.


Tang :)
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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I was thinking about it. But I dont like paying for a premium just because it is a limited production.

Tang :)
Sadly we pay a big premium for virtually everything we buy in this hobby due to limited production. Imagine how much lower would be the price of an SAT tonearm if Technics/Panasonic made 10,000 or 25,000 of them.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
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I ran into this video showing different sound of a Bosendorfer vs Steinway.


I feel the tone of the Universe Premium is more like a Steinway and the Optimum is more like a Bosendorfer..the upright model of Bosendofer would even better represent. The Premium has more vibrancy in tone which is more similar to Opus1. The Optimum seems to round or coat softness to images . The word nostalgic comes to mind.

I find many things contradict to what Richard Mak reported. This could change once my Optimum has more time on it. My Optimum is a 4 ohm his is a 1 ohm.


Tang :)
Hi Tang,

Does this mean that you are less keen on the Optimum - I would be fed up if my cart sounded like an upright Bosendorfer instead preferring the concert grand Steinway
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
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Beverly Hills, CA
I ran into this video showing different sound of a Bosendorfer vs Steinway.


I feel the tone of the Universe Premium is more like a Steinway and the Optimum is more like a Bosendorfer..the upright model of Bosendofer would even better represent. The Premium has more vibrancy in tone which is more similar to Opus1. The Optimum seems to round or coat softness to images . The word nostalgic comes to mind.

I find many things contradict to what Richard Mak reported. This could change once my Optimum has more time on it. My Optimum is a 4 ohm his is a 1 ohm.


Tang :)
This is very interesting, Tang.

Generally I think products in high-end audio tend to evolve towards a higher resolution type of sound and away from a nostalgia type of sound.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Ron, it really doesn't have to be this way.

I'm due to hear a potentially fascinating pair of horns, new design, limited production, bespoke, no corners cut, top top components, endless R&D, and it's street price is half that of a competing brand that does sell 00s, using cheaper parts, w greater economies of scale.

SAT, and so many other preposterously priced pieces, pick their market place, knowing plenty in Asia will fork out willingly, indeed are told directly to keep prices high, as this actually helps sales.

I'm totally jaded that 5 years ago, it was the exception to market a tonearm at $25k, now it's almost par.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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Yes, I agree from anecdotes I have heard that some of the high pricing of some components is to appeal to some Asian audiophiles.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Ron, it really doesn't have to be this way.

I'm due to hear a potentially fascinating pair of horns, new design, limited production, bespoke, no corners cut, top top components, endless R&D, and it's street price is half that of a competing brand that does sell 00s, using cheaper parts, w greater economies of scale.
what a nail biting thriller. Do we need an ad in the middle before you reveal the secret?
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Hi Tang,

Does this mean that you are less keen on the Optimum - I would be fed up if my cart sounded like an upright Bosendorfer instead preferring the concert grand Steinway
Hi Bill,

You might be surprised how I gives impression on this cart could contradict my decision to keep it...if I finally decide to keep it. I have many carts. What I intend to put on the American Sound are four carts with very different characters. Imo, my Opus1 and Master Sig. present very different characters. The Universe Premium falls some where between them. But the Optimum is totally in a different corner. One thing I totally agree with Mr.Mak although I never listed to Kondo cartridge is when he said " the midrange richness of the Optimum is capable of delivering wave after wave of human emotions rivaling that of the Kondo IOM. The Kondo IOM has long been my cartridge of choice when it comes to conveying human emotions, very few can rival the IOM save perhaps a couple of the stone body Koetsus, but the Koetsus has their own limitations with frequency extensions. Never have I ever imagined that the day will come where I could compare a UNIverse with a Kondo IOM, yet this is exactly what the ZYX UNIverse Optimum is capable of doing. The Kondo and the Optimum differ only in shades and colors, with the Kondo being more voluptuous and laid back, and the Optimum more forward but with greater sense of realism."

So there is a high possibility that at the end I could pick this Optimum to be on the AS. It is my best cart for vocal right now.

Tang :)
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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E. England
Ked, you'll hear about it when everyone else does.
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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North Shore of Boston
Tang, what are you thinking for that fourth spot? A mono, or something like the Atlas SL? Why no Koetsu or Ortofon or SPU? I also understand why you don't fiddle with arm height, but even David says that for 180 or 200g LPs, the arm might be raised a bit. Would one of your arms be set up for these thicker pressings?
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
9,361
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London
Hi Bill,

You might be surprised how I gives impression on this cart could contradict my decision to keep it...if I finally decide to keep it. I have many carts. What I intend to put on the American Sound are four carts with very different characters. Imo, my Opus1 and Master Sig. present very different characters. The Universe Premium falls some where between them. But the Optimum is totally in a different corner. One thing I totally agree with Mr.Mak although I never listed to Kondo cartridge is when he said " the midrange richness of the Optimum is capable of delivering wave after wave of human emotions rivaling that of the Kondo IOM. The Kondo IOM has long been my cartridge of choice when it comes to conveying human emotions, very few can rival the IOM save perhaps a couple of the stone body Koetsus, but the Koetsus has their own limitations with frequency extensions. Never have I ever imagined that the day will come where I could compare a UNIverse with a Kondo IOM, yet this is exactly what the ZYX UNIverse Optimum is capable of doing. The Kondo and the Optimum differ only in shades and colors, with the Kondo being more voluptuous and laid back, and the Optimum more forward but with greater sense of realism."

So there is a high possibility that at the end I could pick this Optimum to be on the AS. It is my best cart for vocal right now.

Tang :)
The Kondo IO M is the newer version of the AN IO Japan Ltd that I told you about I heard at Gian's friend and was superbly impressed. Iirc Gian mentioned it is better than the Kondo up M. I will compare it (AN IO Ltd Japan) most probably on brinkmann balance and FR 66s with Allnic phono the coming Saturday
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
1,530
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UK
Hi Bill,

You might be surprised how I gives impression on this cart could contradict my decision to keep it...if I finally decide to keep it. I have many carts. What I intend to put on the American Sound are four carts with very different characters. Imo, my Opus1 and Master Sig. present very different characters. The Universe Premium falls some where between them. But the Optimum is totally in a different corner. One thing I totally agree with Mr.Mak although I never listed to Kondo cartridge is when he said " the midrange richness of the Optimum is capable of delivering wave after wave of human emotions rivaling that of the Kondo IOM. The Kondo IOM has long been my cartridge of choice when it comes to conveying human emotions, very few can rival the IOM save perhaps a couple of the stone body Koetsus, but the Koetsus has their own limitations with frequency extensions. Never have I ever imagined that the day will come where I could compare a UNIverse with a Kondo IOM, yet this is exactly what the ZYX UNIverse Optimum is capable of doing. The Kondo and the Optimum differ only in shades and colors, with the Kondo being more voluptuous and laid back, and the Optimum more forward but with greater sense of realism."

So there is a high possibility that at the end I could pick this Optimum to be on the AS. It is my best cart for vocal right now.

Tang :)
Hey Tang,

Yes this makes a lot of sense and since you like your vocals - it sounds an important addition to your tranducer armamentarium.

Enjoy!
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
9,361
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London
Hey Tang,

Yes this makes a lot of sense and since you like your vocals - it sounds an important addition to your tranducer armamentarium.

Enjoy!
Thought the VdH was fantastic on vocals, but tang might have introduced some sibilance since he changed cables and took out grounding.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
63
Beverly Hills, CA
Hi Bill,

You might be surprised how I gives impression on this cart could contradict my decision to keep it...if I finally decide to keep it. I have many carts. What I intend to put on the American Sound are four carts with very different characters. Imo, my Opus1 and Master Sig. present very different characters. The Universe Premium falls some where between them. But the Optimum is totally in a different corner. One thing I totally agree with Mr.Mak although I never listed to Kondo cartridge is when he said " the midrange richness of the Optimum is capable of delivering wave after wave of human emotions rivaling that of the Kondo IOM. The Kondo IOM has long been my cartridge of choice when it comes to conveying human emotions, very few can rival the IOM save perhaps a couple of the stone body Koetsus, but the Koetsus has their own limitations with frequency extensions. Never have I ever imagined that the day will come where I could compare a UNIverse with a Kondo IOM, yet this is exactly what the ZYX UNIverse Optimum is capable of doing. The Kondo and the Optimum differ only in shades and colors, with the Kondo being more voluptuous and laid back, and the Optimum more forward but with greater sense of realism."

So there is a high possibility that at the end I could pick this Optimum to be on the AS. It is my best cart for vocal right now.

Tang :)
Wow! Better for vocals than the VdH?
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
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Bangkok
Tang, what are you thinking for that fourth spot? A mono, or something like the Atlas SL? Why no Koetsu or Ortofon or SPU? I also understand why you don't fiddle with arm height, but even David says that for 180 or 200g LPs, the arm might be raised a bit. Would one of your arms be set up for these thicker pressings?
No more mono cart for me. Modern mc can do mono very well too and just because it is a mono cart it doesnt automatically means it play mono records better in all aspects.

The fourth one is AtlasSL. I like AtlasSL. I am trying it on the SAEC instead of SME because Bonzo said it sound "fantastic" with SAEC. This is no tweaking ;). I just happened to have the SAEC in stock, no need to buy more. So why not. As far as look goes, it is the most awesome looking arm imo. Unluckily, my Kuro DIN phono cable was broken. My SAEC is the same modified one as Gian's from Torqueo. It only accepts DIN. I could only hear one channel. So I had to send the Kuro back for fixing. I listened to one channel. It sounded pretty darn good...very promising. I could try set it up with 200g vinyl.

CECABC37-5D6B-4D1E-ABC4-1A5AEDF3D410.jpeg
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
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The IOM replaced the older IOJ
Always 4 litz
iO Limited was the top also before at around 25.000€ and the IOJ around 15.000€
IOM replaced IO J
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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Tang, did you manage to compare it to other carts on only one channel?
 
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Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Bangkok
Tang, did you manage to compare it to other carts on only one channel?
You are kidding me. No.

My tonearm guy and I were busy figuring outwhy it came out one channel. Gian told me to send the Kuro back and thats what I did.

Tang :)
 

Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
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You are kidding me. No.

My tonearm guy and I were busy figuring outwhy it came out one channel. Gian told me to send the Kuro back and thats what I did.

Tang :)
That British humor :)
 
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