American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)

[microstrip]

(...)
The problem is that all top companies has to be something special for Asian market,for example Riviera company told me that their Asian distributor claim that the power amp mono 50 watt is too small,so they did now a 100 watt mono amp and a pre special edition.
Italian distributor of Boulder told me Boulder was obliged from their Asian distributor to do a bigger line than 2000,so they did 3000 line bigger for Asia market.
This is what is happening.
So also CH did for this

Yes, the current high-end trends are dictated by the Asian market - companies such as DCS, DartZeel, Devialet or D'Agostino ( just picking the "D" ones ) sell most of their production to the far-east countries. These markets are ready to pay high prices and this has two consequences - the state of the art sound reproduction is really being pushed, but in general the prices have increased. The contraction of the market and the increasing number of brands also cause this price rise, as few units of each model are built and sold. The fact that currently most high-end sales include a part-exchange acceptance by the dealer also contributes to these pushed prices.

Although I admire the great sounding current top products, I recognize that their prices moved beyond what I want to spend in audio and I am now staying with the previous generation top models - they are excellent sounding and represent great value for money.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

less cash and more brain can accomplish a lot......

 

[bonzo75]

less cash and more brain can accomplish a lot......

Also better ears and less bias than micro has towards prices, not realizing the same Asian market he mentioned has a big knowledgeable chunk that loves western electrics, Altec, and tannoys, and thinks those brands he mentioned are for the jokers. Thank the audio God for them else we would have micro and his cohorts spreading this false price related brands pushing the sonics stories

 

[microstrip]

less cash and more brain can accomplish a lot......

Surely. But no brainstorming can transform the XLF in WAMMs' !

 

[microstrip]

Also better ears and less bias than micro has towards prices, not realizing the same Asian market he mentioned has a big knowledgeable chunk that loves western electrics, Altec, and tannoys, and thinks those brands he mentioned are for the jokers. Thank the audio God for them else we would have micro and his cohorts spreading this false price related brands pushing the sonics stories

I regret that you insist on insulting the ears of those who have different opinions and preferences than yours. This was supposed to be a friendly forum.

 

[Folsom]

Isn't this essentially what TechDAS and Wilson did with the launch of the Zero and WAMM? There was so much discussion and speculation for what seems like months or even years before the products were actually released. There were even advance teases with prototypes and videos and exclusive debut auditions and very limited availability.

Pass Labs did something similar with their current line of preamps and phono stages. They released the XP12 and XP17 to replace the entry level XP10 and XP15. At the same time they announced the XP22 and XP25 which would not appear for at least a year. The previously announced XP32 has still not been released, after about two years.

Wilson and Magico are releasing teaser videos months before the product is officially announced, which is often months before it is ready for shipping.

So, it seems some of this is happening now, though these seem to be exceptions and not the norm.

Thanks for jumping in on this mini-topic.

With Wilson the thing to note is it wasn’t a price jump, it was a rocketship all the way up to the biggest and baddest beyond almost everyone and everything. I simply suspect few people where feeling hurt because they felt like they needed to order the WAMM since it was the “incremental” next step in their favorite speaker brand.

But perhaps it’s really because it is speakers, not the time table or price difference? Speakers appear drastically different, not so much like a bump up of nearly the same thing.

In the case of PassL, that’s interesting, I had not noticed.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

lets cool down here......
It´s definitevly good that there are SOTA brands that push the frontiers beyond the horizon and that there are buyers to support them in their persuit of the absolute sound
however there are levels below, that with knowhow and experience, can be elevated to unbelievable sound quality...
and that´s part of the charm with this hobby....
it´s room for everybody.....
most important is to enjoy......
best
from hailstorm ridden Norway

 

[dminches]

I just had a conversation with Richard Vandersteen about the topic of model changes and upgrades. In his mind, after so many years of designing speakers and testing potential changes he doesn’t think there is a lot left to change. That doesn’t mean he isn’t always looking for potential modifications but you can see from the stability of his models that he doesn’t make changes for the sake of being able to call things upgrades. His product line has been awfully stable for years which mimics his approach.

 

[Gregadd]

So get it right the first time.Customers should not be beta testers. Building to a price point is different.

 

[jeff1225]

Yes, the current high-end trends are dictated by the Asian market - companies such as DCS, DartZeel, Devialet or D'Agostino ( just picking the "D" ones ) sell most of their production to the far-east countries. These markets are ready to pay high prices and this has two consequences - the state of the art sound reproduction is really being pushed, but in general the prices have increased. The contraction of the market and the increasing number of brands also cause this price rise, as few units of each model are built and sold. The fact that currently most high-end sales include a part-exchange acceptance by the dealer also contributes to these pushed prices.

Although I admire the great sounding current top products, I recognize that their prices moved beyond what I want to spend in audio and I am now staying with the previous generation top models - they are excellent sounding and represent great value for money.

The Asian market is the most interesting to me. Audiophiles are mixing the best of vintage (Micro Seiki, Tannoy, JBL, TAD, WE, SME) and modern (Airtight, Audio Note, Wilson,Cessaro). All of these music lovers are pushing the envelope to achieve the absolute sound; whatever the absolute sound means to them.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

The Asian market is the most interesting to me. Audiophiles are mixing the best of vintage (Micro Seiki, Tannoy, JBL, TAD, WE, SME) and modern (Airtight, Audio Note, Wilson,Cessaro). All of these music lovers are pushing the envelope to achieve the absolute sound; whatever the absolute sound means to them.

Totally agree. I wish we had even more folks from the high end Asian scene on wbf.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Don´t forget the DIY communities around the globe...
here in Norway, there´s plenty of groundbreaking speaker systems, that in many ways are ahead of the commercially available alternatives
a lot of the acclaimed super speaker systems would struggle to keep their positions...
lots of overprised, poorly engineered junk imo
best
Leif

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Don´t forget the DIY communities around the globe...
here in Norway, there´s plenty of groundbreaking speaker systems, that in many ways are ahead of the commercially available alternatives
a lot of the acclaimed super speaker systems would struggle to keep their positions...
lots of overprised, poorly engineered junk imo
best
Leif

Yep totally agreed, Leif. The Norwegians are also doing some mad horn systems - well up my street.

 

[Tango]

Totally agree. I wish we had even more folks from the high end Asian scene on wbf.

Older Asians (Have to be older to have money to get into this stuff) were not raised to even raise hand when studied in class, not to mention going to court room or interrogation room like this forum Bill.

Tang

 

[microstrip]

The Asian market is the most interesting to me. Audiophiles are mixing the best of vintage (Micro Seiki, Tannoy, JBL, TAD, WE, SME) and modern (Airtight, Audio Note, Wilson,Cessaro). All of these music lovers are pushing the envelope to achieve the absolute sound; whatever the absolute sound means to them.

Although we do not have statistics, as far as I see the Asian high-end boom is mainly due to modern - when we consider all the brands that are selling very expensive equipment to countries such as Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia or China we get the idea that there is no vintage left to compare in numbers with them. One distributor told me that curiously many of these costumers are much younger than typical european or US audiophiles.

It would be nice to have feedback from our members living in this part of the world!

 

[Solypsa]

There are so many topics intertwined at the moment in this thread.

Inspiration and innovation don't follow a schedule, but product development does.

Luxury markets always serve, to some extent, the caprice and fashion of the wealthy.

The fundamental scientific research that makes the analog side of this art possible is nearly 100 years old.

Only a certain segment of audiophiles (no matter financial means) will pursue a great system / room systematically.

So what great music are we enjoying tonight?

 

[sujay]

Dear Sujay,

I think for vdh we have to keep playing for quite a while if at first we hear something strange. For example I used to write to ddk to tell him that my Master Sig sounded skew to the left. It was not the azimuth. But now it no longer skew to the left. I dont know why.

Kind regards,
Tang

Yes I agree.......just that I probably ran out of patience somewhere during the process!

 

[sujay]

Yes, the current high-end trends are dictated by the Asian market - companies such as DCS, DartZeel, Devialet or D'Agostino ( just picking the "D" ones ) sell most of their production to the far-east countries. These markets are ready to pay high prices and this has two consequences - the state of the art sound reproduction is really being pushed, but in general the prices have increased. The contraction of the market and the increasing number of brands also cause this price rise, as few units of each model are built and sold. The fact that currently most high-end sales include a part-exchange acceptance by the dealer also contributes to these pushed prices.

Although I admire the great sounding current top products, I recognize that their prices moved beyond what I want to spend in audio and I am now staying with the previous generation top models - they are excellent sounding and represent great value for money.

Pardon me but I find this entire, hackneyed, statement/argument about Asia driving prices a little superficial. Absolute numbers, by themselves, mean little. One needs to understand what these numbers are in the context of the addressable population.

 

[Lagonda]

Older Asians (Have to be older to have money to get into this stuff) were not raised to even raise hand when studied in class, not to mention going to court room or interrogation room like this forum Bill.

Tang

Thank god you are such a young
Asian

 

[Ron Resnick]

Older Asians (Have to be older to have money to get into this stuff) were not raised to even raise hand when studied in class, not to mention going to court room or interrogation room like this forum Bill.

Tang

Mr. Tang! Please take a seat in the witness chair at the front of the courtroom! Remember you are under oath to tell the truth under penalty of perjury!

Mr. Tang, isn’t it true that between January 1 and April 30 of this year, 2019, you found the VdH Master Stradivarius Signature on more than one occasion to display greater sibilance on vocals than your Opus 1?

Now Mr. Tang, please look around this courtroom and tell the court if you see a dodgy-looking male with curry stains on his shirt who is suspected of visiting audiophiles and forcing them under duress to switch many components in and out of their systems so he can conduct sinister sonic experiments on said innocent audiophiles? Can you identify this culprit?