American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)

[microstrip]

Since your entire hypothesis is based on "Natural Brigade" (TM) you should define it so we know what you're going on about while purposely ruining another thread when you can easily start one for yourselves.

david

IMHO you fail to see what is a public forum. As long as people in these threads refer to the way other people listen or assemble their systems anyone is invited to participate.

IMHO what ruins threads is the inability of proponents to debate or support their hypothesis, or the permanent intrusion of those who have nothing to say other than trying to moderate threads.

Curiously I agree with many things Tango is saying, but not on the specific point I referred.

 

[ddk]

IMHO you fail to see what is a public forum. As long as people in these threads refer to the way other people listen or assemble their systems anyone is invited to participate.

That doesn't give you the right to troll and repeatedly derail threads with the same nonsense! What's "Natural Brigade" TM. I have no issues with conflicting points of view and welcome them when they're sincere.

IMHO what ruins threads is the inability of proponents to debate or support their hypothesis, or the permanent intrusion of those who have nothing to say other than trying to moderate threads.

You're the one moderating other people's threads with your repeated to death so called hypothesis and purposely derailing them on purpose.

Curiously I agree with many things Tango is saying, but not on the specific point I referred.

Is that where you got the "Natural Brigade" TM from? Since you have so many HOs and claim sincerity explain the meaning of your "Natural Brigade" TM.

david

 

[tima]

Bloodknot ?

American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)

Hi David, Well I owe you a pint or three. Done around 1.5 hrs straight listening and I am getting a really nice improvement in the sound. The following are the areas that I have seen a really decent uplift: >> Leading edge transient speed increased >> Improved decay >> Added micro-resolution...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[microstrip]

That doesn't give you the right to troll and repeatedly derail threads with the same nonsense! What's "Natural Brigade" TM. I have no issues with conflicting points of view and welcome them when they're sincere. (...)

david

Fortunately you do not have the authority to define what is nonsense or not in this forum. Or to define what is sincere.

Natural Brigade (TM) was clearly explained in the original post - it was an answer to Peter post #1208. It seems you read only one tenth of the posts.

 

[ddk]

Fortunately you do not have the authority to define what is nonsense or not in this forum. Or to define what is sincere.

I have the ability to judge it and call it out. I'm not the only one who sees it this way you've been asked in various threads to take your Natural TM obsession elsewhere. Why don't you start a thread if your interest is sincere and proceed without any interruption.

Natural Brigade (TM) was clearly explained in the original post - it was an answer to Peter post #1208. It seems you read only one tenth of the posts.

I addressed you after reading your entire post, there's no explanation just your term.

david

 

[microstrip]

It’s very simple Francisco. Real music (unamplified acoustic) is what it is and people recognize it when they hear it. It is an absolute. There are no different levels.

Natural sound, as an approach for system building and set up has a goal of reminding the listener of that real music.

Francisco, I do not understand your post. Could you please explain what you mean by “Natural Brigade (TM)? Thank you.

Peter,

You defined them in the two previous sentences I am quoting. People who think that real music perception is an absolute , equal to everyone and can be used for an universal reference of sound quality to assemble and judge audio systems.

People who think that they can split the audiophile community in those who use real music as a reference and the "others" .

 

[tima]

People who think that they can split the audiophile community in those who use real music as a reference and the "others" .

You think in terms of social ideology when that discussion is about objectives. I don't see you whining about Resnick's objectives 'splitting the audiophile community' into four. The ideology is yours Francisco -- we are not responsible for you clinging to it.

 

[microstrip]

You think in terms of social ideology when that discussion is about objectives. I don't see you whining about Resnick's objectives 'splitting the audiophile community' into four. The ideology is yours Francisco -- we are not responsible for you clinging to it.

No, the ideology was exposed by Peter in many posts - he brought it to this thread.

BTW I and others disagreed with some aspects of Ron analysis - we debated it cordially and its was very interesting discussion along some time. In spite of some disagreement it become a reference in WBF. It seems you fail to see the deep differences from Ron proposal and the natural - non natural discussion.

Anyway, it is probably a good time to leave Tango thread go in other subjects, such as bloodknots. Although I have used it most of the time, some people do not like it because it is essentially asymmetrical. They prefer knots with high symmetry, arguing that in such more simple knots the voluminous side travels turned to the outside, becoming non-existent.

 

[PeterA]

I apologize Tang. Your wonderful turntable thread does not deserve this. It is getting ruined. I am leaving your thread and hopefully people will follow so that your thread can get back on the topic of the AS2000.

 

[Lagonda]

Peter, sorry if I've missed this, but how does one tie a knot that doesn't become a discontinuity or "bump" per revolution?
And is it possible to create a string or thread with no knot? Is there a proprietary product or method?

Found this when i was looking into the subject !

 

[dan31]

That looks like a surgeons knot. I use this for tying leader/tippet sections for fly fishing.

 

[bonzo75]

Peter,

You defined them in the two previous sentences I am quoting. People who think that real music perception is an absolute , equal to everyone and can be used for an universal reference of sound quality to assemble and judge audio systems.

People who think that they can split the audiophile community in those who use real music as a reference and the "others" .

I don't see why this is controversial. Surely we can differentiate (i prefer the word differentiate to split) people by what reference they use. Those who use live unamplified, those who use live amplified, those who don't use live.

Once Ken Kessler was giving a talk at the Windsor hifi show where he said he does not use live music as a reference. He only judges a system/component by how good it sounds to his current one.

Bobvin also said he did not use live classical. There will be many.

 

[bonzo75]

Found this when i was looking into the subject !View attachment 95909

Kinky

 

[Tango]

I apologize Tang. Your wonderful turntable thread does not deserve this. It is getting ruined. I am leaving your thread and hopefully people will follow so that your thread can get back on the topic of the AS2000.

No apology Peter.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Found this when i was looking into the subject !View attachment 95909

OMG Milan this is the map of the way a thread travels when the word natural gets used or someone posts a video!! It’s known as the dead horse strangler knot!

 

[the sound of Tao]

That looks like a surgeons knot. I use this for tying leader/tippet sections for fly fishing.

Think it is also a pretty handy knot for a backstrap roast of lamb and at certain nightclubs and some value generally for serial killers

 

[tima]

I don't see why this is controversial. Surely we can differentiate (i prefer the word differentiate to split) people by what reference they use. Those who use live unamplified, those who use live amplified, those who don't use live.

In 1493 Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia) drew a line on the globe with his finger to say what part of the New "World outside Europe belonged to Spain (Castile.) The other world super power (King John II of Portugal) was unhappy with this and negotiated directly with Spanish Monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella to adjust the line to protect Portugal's interests - the famous Treaty of Tordesilla. Wrapping the line around the world, Portugal got protections for their trade routes down the cost of Africa along with the Indian Ocean and Spain got the Pacific along with most (but not all) of Sourth America. It's why Brazil speaks Portugese. Even though the negotiations happened without a papal blessing, in history the new line was known as "the Papal Line of Demarcation".

I used that by analogy in my discussion of Naturalists and Synthesists, referring to the audiophile line of demarcation between.those who use live music as a reference as those who do not. Of course a few got their snoot on over this characterization and thus Micro's continual attempts at chastising -- "how dare you split the audiophile community" - as if there is a unified group for whom he speaks. I suspect he is a Natural Contrarian - or he just doesn't like the Borgias.

Yes 'differentiate' is a better word.

 

[Al M.]

In 1493 Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia) drew a line on the globe with his finger to say what part of the New "World outside Europe belonged to Spain (Castile.) The other world super power (King John II of Portugal) was unhappy with this and negotiated directly with Spanish Monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella to adjust the line to protect Portugal's interests - the famous Treaty of Tordesilla. Wrapping the line around the world, Portugal got protections for their trade routes down the cost of Africa along with the Indian Ocean and Spain got the Pacific along with most (but not all) of Sourth America. It's why Brazil speaks Portugese. Even though the negotiations happened without a papal blessing, in history the new line was known as "the Papal Line of Demarcation".

I used that by analogy in my discussion of Naturalists and Synthesists, referring to the audiophile line of demarcation between.those who use live music as a reference as those who do not. Of course a few got their snoot on over this characterization and thus Micro's continual attempts at chastising -- "how dare you split the audiophile community" - as if there is a unified group for whom he speaks. I suspect he is a Natural Contrarian - or he just doesn't like the Borgias.

Yes 'differentiate' is a better word.

Yes, there are those that use (unamplified) live music as a reference as those who do not, and this "splits" the audiophile community or "differentiates" within it. I agree.

But that does not really seem the point of "Natural Sound". The point rather seems to be what I have outlined in this post (#2,973) on the Natural Sound thread. You can add "certain turntables", adding to the exclusivity (even admitted by Peter), to my characterization.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, there are those that use (unamplified) live music as a reference as those who do not, and this "splits" the audiophile community or "differentiates" within it. I agree.

But that does not really seem the point of "Natural Sound". The point rather seems to be what I have outlined in this post (#2,973) on the Natural Sound thread. You can add "certain turntables", adding to the exclusivity (even admitted by Peter), to my characterization.

That post is very different to what micro says. So we agree he could not articulate his position to present a case

 

[microstrip]

That post is very different to what micro says.

Yes. Some of us have their own ideas, we are not just cheerleaders.

So we agree he could not articulate his position to present a case

I write for people with a reasonable ability of understanding and audio knowledge, not to fundamentalists -sorry.
But I recognize you are a master in word jugglery.