American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)

[bonzo75]

After going through this fun part of this hobby, I think at one point an audiophile will realize he needs to have a north star to constructing a system and accomplish something.

This assumes your star is fixed and in future you will not compare north star to pole star. Even the Earth's pole stars have changed through time.

 

[PeterA]

There are many ways of creating our north star in this hobby. And IMHO gear playing can move its position in the sky - and, most of it, the stars are driven by the music you listen. Otherwise we risk that the north star guides our music.

That is interesting. Tang referred to "the" north star, and you Fransisco are writing something very different by referring to many ways of creating "our" north star. To me, this is a fundamental difference of understanding or approach to the hobby. The target or guide is either one thing, more or less what everyone pursues when trying to approach the sound of live acoustic instruments using a variety of approaches, OR, it is something personal, up to the individual, and a reflection of the subjective preference of the listener.

In my opinion, this gets to the heart of the matter and subject of this thread. What is the listener trying to achieve? It seems that some are aiming for the same target, while others are doing something different. We see this starting to manifest itself in the language used and choices being made. We also read very few stated goals and explanations of specific choices get them closer to that goal. Tang declared something specific, THE north star, and by reading his posts, we have an idea of what he means and how he is getting there.

 

[microstrip]

(...) This thread is my attempt to describe my path to the north star.

As far as I could see this is a thread on Tango' system ...

 

[Tango]

Perhaps because I don’t care that much for classical music, or because so often even when I hear a small jazz ensemble some instrument is amplified I don’t have this “live, unamplified” baseline reference.

Here is the way I do it bob. I like listening to classical but I have actually attended classical concert only twice in my life. My experience on classical is like dust under the shoes of people like Bonzo and Tima. What I do for a reference of natural live sound is actually going to jazz pub. I did many video recording of live jazz and listen to them over and over to grab the character, the essence of live sound from those videos. Both amplified and unamplified. I went there for enjoyment so I never thought about sound when listening in pub. I had to listen to videos I recorded later to study. It does not matter whether jazz or classical many characters are the same especially how the live recording present ambient.

 

[the sound of Tao]

This assumes your star is fixed and in future you will not compare north star to pole star. Even the Earth's pole stars have changed through time.

Audiophile axial precession brought Polaris around into our night sky as pole star only for the last few thousand years and this probably made box and cone and solid state particularly popular… 3000 years ago when the fixed star Thuban in the dragon constellation was our pole star early horns and the great god Set were first in command. (Apologies in advance to our early WBF astronomers) but the navigation and the precession of the audiophile has been slowly going backwards for as long as we can remember After spending nearly half a century chasing all sorts of points on the compass its nice to completely flip your axials and head back home to music and the simplicity of just feeling good about how it all comes together.

 

[knghifi]

In my Thai audio chat group, 100+ people in the group, I actually never heard a single person say the word "natural" describing sound on their own. They just don't use the word natural to describe great sound they hear. Unbelievable sound. Great great sound. Realistic sound. Epic sound. Heavenly sound, etc. But not once natural sound. Members here are quite similar but not the same extent. If the regulars did not make a big deal out of the term natural sound 90% or more will not use the word natural sound to describe what they hear anyway. They would use those terms used in popular magazine. Or just say gobsmacking, etc to describe their experience. And somehow those people who use the term natural sound I just don't hear them use the word gobsmack describing their experience. My observation is unless you bring up the word natural or unnatural, most audiophiles don't even think about natural or not hearing great attractive sound.

Just humor when you suggested Micro can also use natural sound to describe his taste. Noone in my circle use natural or unnatural sound.

 

[knghifi]

This is an interesting reply. I understand you put some humor behind it.

Consider listening to a live concert then listening to a reproduction of it. I don't think it is helpful to say one is live and the other is dead.



I don't believe there are posts that say those things.

It was a joke. You guys too serious

 

[kodomo]

Dear @Tango, after all your positive comments on Neumann dst and the impossibility of getting one in a good shape, I will ask for a favor from you. If one day, you can try the Analog technic dst replicas head to head with the original Neumann in your setup, we can can have some hope or give up on our dst dreams. I loved your real head to head tests with cartridges.

 

[bonzo75]

Dear @Tango, after all your positive comments on Neumann dst and the impossibility of getting one in a good shape, I will ask for a favor from you. If one day, you can try the Analog technic dst replicas head to head with the original Neumann in your setup, we can can have some hope or give up on our dst dreams. I loved your real head to head tests with cartridges.

I know someone in Italy who owns the Neumann, Analogtechnick DST, and DaVa with his 4 way GOTO horns. He said the Analog technick is as good as the Neumann. I was scheduled to visit him earlier in June but easyjet cancelled the flight like they cancelled many.

 

[XV-1]

This calls for a survey, who's seeking for a natural vs unnatural sounds. LOL!

Wonder how many would describe their system unnatural?

You need to add in more natural per Peter's new descriptor.

does that mean the natural before more natural is actually unnatural?

 

[kodomo]

I know someone in Italy who owns the Neumann, Analogtechnick DST, and DaVa with his 4 way GOTO horns. He said the Analog technick is as good as the Neumann. I was scheduled to visit him earlier in June but easyjet cancelled the flight like they cancelled many.

Is he Vilmantas from Lithuania?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Is he Vilmantas from Lithuania?

Stefano B - I think he speaks of.

 

[bonzo75]

Is he Vilmantas from Lithuania?

No I said from Italy, not in Lithuania

 

[tima]

I know someone in Italy who owns the Neumann, Analogtechnick DST, and DaVa with his 4 way GOTO horns. He said the Analog technick is as good as the Neumann. I was scheduled to visit him earlier in June but easyjet cancelled the flight like they cancelled many.

Stefano Bertoncello ?

Analogtechnik DST15 - first impressions

 Iâve been impressed many times during my almost 50 years-long music-audio journey, but only an handful of time I was scared to death: Stud...

twogoodears.blogspot.com

 

[bonzo75]

Is he Vilmantas from Lithuania?

Analogtechnik DMT25 ð¥

 I admit I was quite reluctant to try the DMT25 cartridge as I had to take away the DST15 which I so greatly enjoyed and admired for about ...

twogoodears.blogspot.com

 

[kodomo]

Ok, thanks guys. I have already asked Stefano about his newly received analog technik dst15d ssv cartridge, which is the one I am interested in comparison to original dst.

 

[Tango]

Dear @Tango, after all your positive comments on Neumann dst and the impossibility of getting one in a good shape, I will ask for a favor from you. If one day, you can try the Analog technic dst replicas head to head with the original Neumann in your setup, we can can have some hope or give up on our dst dreams. I loved your real head to head tests with cartridges.

Ok. Kodomo san. One day I will do that for you in my own system. I actually have heard the dst replica, the original DST and the original DST62 in the same system. I listened to them in the vintage workshop I wrote about many months back. I was offered that replica DST25 too before buying the originals. I remember that day I auditioned all three I actually liked the black DST62 most. But now having lived with both the white DST and black DST62, it is clear the original white DST is my #1 cart. If you listen to all three at the same time blind folded (I did not know what was what when I listened) you will find the replica most standout, easy to hear all sound in detail, seem more resolute. Presentation seems clean clear refreshing. Great sound. We did not play enough music to hear the bass. I mention the bass because the original white DST has the kind of bass that make anyone question the bass they have been hearing. Anyway dont take my words for it. Stay speculative until you hear them yourself. Then think of what I said. For me I chose the originals because the DST25 drew my attention more than the other two. The other two have the kind of resolution that doesnt draw attention, doesn't make sound become easier to hear but give even more insight to the music with no homogeneity. The natural vibrato the humanness the shift the shading the subtlety the contrast the variation is more but only when you shift your attention to hear ... not putting sound on the platter for you. ( I dont know if people realize that when sound is more obvious put on the tray for you to hear easy, the degree of homogeneity increases.) To me the white DST is the most accurate to real of the three. I currently 90% listen to the white DST. For vocal I switch between white and black neumann. The vdh I use for rechecking things when I have some hypothesis.

 

[ddk]

Guys. Howie @howiebrou. This beef jerky from Singapore is excellent!!!!

View attachment 95851
View attachment 95852

Sorry Khun David. You have me as a topic in your thread. You gonna have to tolerate the way I am.

Then send me some jerky!
david

 

[kodomo]

Ok. Kodomo san. One day I will do that for you in my own system. I actually have heard the dst replica, the original DST and the original DST62 in the same system. I listened to them in the vintage workshop I wrote about many months back. I was offered that replica DST25 too before buying the originals. I remember that day I auditioned all three I actually liked the black DST62 most. But now having lived with both the white DST and black DST62, it is clear the original white DST is my #1 cart. If you listen to all three at the same time blind folded (I did not know what was what when I listened) you will find the replica most standout, easy to hear all sound in detail, seem more resolute. Presentation seems clean clear refreshing. Great sound. We did not play enough music to hear the bass. I mention the bass because the original white DST has the kind of bass that make anyone question the bass they have been hearing. Anyway dont take my words for it. Stay speculative until you hear them yourself. Then think of what I said. For me I chose the originals because the DST25 drew my attention more than the other two. The other two have the kind of resolution that doesnt draw attention, doesn't make sound become easier to hear but give even more insight to the music with no homogeneity. The natural vibrato the humanness the shift the shading the subtlety the contrast the variation is more but only when you shift your attention to hear ... not putting sound on the platter for you. ( I dont know if people realize that when sound is more obvious put on the tray for you to hear easy, the degree of homogeneity increases.) To me the white DST is the most accurate to real of the three. I currently 90% listen to the white DST. For vocal I switch between white and black neumann. The vdh I use for rechecking things when I have some hypothesis.

Dear Tang kun, thank you for writing down about your prior experience. Let's wait to hear about the new totl Analog Technik dst15d ssv, maybe it is better. I am also wondering if getting a Dava Reference would actually get me more of this kind of sound.

 

[howiebrou]

Guys. Howie @howiebrou. This beef jerky from Singapore is excellent!!!!

View attachment 95851
View attachment 95852

Sorry Khun David. You have me as a topic in your thread. You gonna have to tolerate the way I am.

Yes, indeed. I will have some in your honour Tang!