American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)
- Thread starter ddk
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You simply forgot, that baffles weren't used with open baffle speakers only. They were used with some other types, too.
Why do you think the VOTT, a front and backloaded horn speaker design, came with additional baffles?
Why do the Western Electric Mirrophonic, not even an OB design, came with big, additional baffles?
How do you think, the speaker companies at that early age of amp progression (and their known inabilities to reproduce the frequency extremes) could handle those problems other than with big, additional baffles?
Maybe you are really not aware of the system energy approach, but it is very usefull, because excellent tube amps can produce a lot of acoustic energies. My actual tube amp has 8W, but blows everything in the dust in combination with a 99dB full horn speaker system.
I don't think the power of just 8W justifies this, it's the sheer power of the big PSU that delivers that energy, which can't be defined by the number of simple Watt output only. 8W from a standard transistorized amps are nothing, even 50W or 100 transistor Watt can't produce this kind of energy.
But you think, its all bullshit to use the term energy and controlling this energy in the listening room?
Whats your alternative expression for this, and why do so many people with a full range horn speaker struggle so much with those energies in their listening rooms? Never heard about it? Never heard of methods to get rid of those problems?
I think you simply deny physical facts, but that's not my problem.
Btw, if you write about nearly unobtanium speaker systems, and deliver second hand personal subjective impressions, who helps this?
Such speakers have to be auditioned in person, there are some things in life that can't be delegated to others. I simply won't have believed if anyone have told me about those speakers and what kind of impression they gave to me. This is strictly a personal experience, not adequate to write about, one thing is the written text, the other thing is the real experience.
And if you deny to use the term "energy" for what they are able to reproduce, its all pointless writing anyway. Because that's what the experience is all about.
It's not their sheer size or their ability to play louder than other speakers, it's their ease and smoothness, their contrast between very loud and very subtle, and their ability to blow acoustic energies right in the face of the listener, what differentiate them from ordinary, more modern speaeker systems.
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Think of it more as a way to gently motivate Tang to set up the real deal that we're all eager to learn about.Thats just mean!
It's an illusion that one can learn about how audio systems sound like. One of the kind that magazines put fuel in since decades and the so called "pro- testers" of those mags.
When I did read TAS in the 1980's, studying like literally, the Guru's of this magazine seem to have found the real Audio Nirvana, the Temple with the sacred shrine of audio systems in it, and in reality, they just promoted their stupid Infinity IRS V with some big transistor amps, not even having the faintest idea that the asians already have taken their real audio gold for just pennies and never have auditioned an original WE91/86 or 43 amp system with matching speaker systems. Proof they were just audio fools instead of audio gurus at that time.
And now, someone other will take over and write about those systems, but ignoring the real basic facts about acoustics, means that audio is just about power and timing in its purest incarnation, as acoustic energy.
Huh? Your post contains an unfocused rant on audio topics that includes everything but the kitchen sink but what does this have to do with Tang's system? His new commissioned speakers are a very usual one-off design and there is some genuine curiosity from readers about what we will learn from an experienced listener when he hears them in his room.
The baffles can control room interaction, including back wall reflections that can make the sound seem behind a screen. It’s simple physics. Now if you want to discuss the drivers, well, they are complicated and many have no idea about why vintage ones sound how they do/don’t respect it.
The issue with using the word “energies” here is you’re using it as a catch-all, and replacing countless known interactions with it. It’s not voodoo. You’ve even replaced synergy and “tube watts” with just one word. You’ve replaced room gain with it… You’ve replaced resonate frequencies with it… etc.
totally agree. The pissing competition is ruining Tang's own thread about his own gear.
Surely mods can move all the mass-debate to its own thread about large baffles.
totally agree. The pissing competition is ruining Tang's own thread about his own gear.
Surely mods can move all the mass-debate to its own thread about large baffles.
This is a thread that DDK started about Tang’s new turntable. It is part of a series of the turntable installation threads. David designed the turntable and also the new speakers. I find his thoughts about these speakers and their baffles quite interesting. The speakers have been discussed extensively in this thread with videos giving some impression of their sound. Just go back a few pages. It is not a general discussion but specifically about The Bionors and Eurodyn.
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Did you read the posts before?
Did he offered to write reviews of unobtanium speakers, high efficiency speakers of the past?
Now you know the connection to magazines, which do write the same kind of stuff. That's what I was talking about. The connection is obvious.
This is just your opinion, man.totally agree. The pissing competition is ruining Tang's own thread about his own gear.
Surely mods can move all the mass-debate to its own thread about large baffles.
What is "pissing" you is a debate about the match of big speakers with modern amplifiers in way too small rooms and it's acoustic results for the sound achieved. If you just want "facebook" like positive comments about any random theme, then you are wrong in an audio forum, where critical positions should be allowed to any theme what's in discussion. If you can't tolerate this, don't read audio forums. State that you are an intolerant person to others opinions and everyone knows what personality you have. In the end, with such post, you only judge yourself.
Did you read what I said. Move it to an appropriate thread and you can debate it till the cows come home.
I prefer to read about what Tang thinks about his new speakers.
My U-turn came with increased exposure. Once I heard what I wanted, it was quite easy to change directions. Perhaps not so easy for everyone.
Knowing or realizing what you want - or coming to know what you want -- is the turn. Sometimes it's an epiphany, sometimes it takes years.
Likely for many of us, we cannot imagine what we want - we need to understand what is possible - we need to hear it. That's where exposure comes in.
I suspect that many of us don't ever really know what we want other than the next upgrade MK9.5, or the latest "rave reviewed", flavour of the month thing.
I think that someone, such as Peter, who finds what they really want and can be happy with it, without constant upgraditis, is truly lucky.
If what you want is based on some other gear or based on an idea in your head then I don't believe you will ever stop upgrading. If what you want is based on an external music example, then I think it's possible to get close enough to be satisfied.
For myself and I believe for Peter once there was understanding of natural sound through actual examples, the goal was clear.
Tim, we share the same reference: live music. We then heard various systems that reminded us of that reference and experience. It’s knowing the target and understanding how to get there. We had help along the way, but once we heard it it was clear how to proceed. I suspect Tang has had the same experience and is on his way to getting there. Everyone makes his choices. Once he knows he is there, there is little else to do but enjoy the music.
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In my experience, it is not easy to be satisfied, even if you know what you want. But then I might just be very difficult to please. I don't know how many time I've had visitors say "you should be happy with this" for me to reply "it's not right"
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