You simply forgot, that baffles weren't used with open baffle speakers only. They were used with some other types, too.The baffles don't "compensate" for lack of low end in the amps. That's a totally misleading characterization of the reality.
Under 100hz everything has to be over 3ft and growing the lower you go, to have a horn effect (not just flat baffle). None of them have that. Even if they did the drivers don't play very low. The baffle size prevents cancellation with the back wave. The size of the baffle determines what frequencies won't be getting cancellation. The drivers likely work better in OB/IB config due to their parameters, such as a Q more suited to it. There simply is nothing to do with acoustical gain in the lower frequencies - especially in relation to the amplifiers.
I simply don't understand why there is an insistent claim about voodoo with speaker... "energies" aka room gain... Very normal standard stuff that is simple to deal with and totally unrelated to dumb shit like "pressurizing" comments.
Think of it more as a way to gently motivate Tang to set up the real deal that we're all eager to learn about.Thats just mean!
It's an illusion that one can learn about how audio systems sound like. One of the kind that magazines put fuel in since decades and the so called "pro- testers" of those mags.Think of it more as a way to gently motivate Tang to set up the real deal that we're all eager to learn about.
You simply forgot, that baffles weren't used with open baffle speakers only. They were used with some other types, too.
Why do you think the VOTT, a front and backloaded horn speaker design, came with additional baffles?
Why do the Western Electric Mirrophonic, not even an OB design, came with big, additional baffles?
How do you think, the speaker companies at that early age of amp progression (and their known inabilities to reproduce the frequency extremes) could handle those problems other than with big, additional baffles?
Maybe you are really not aware of the system energy approach, but it is very usefull, because excellent tube amps can produce a lot of acoustic energies. My actual tube amp has 8W, but blows everything in the dust in combination with a 99dB full horn speaker system.
I don't think the power of just 8W justifies this, it's the sheer power of the big PSU that delivers that energy, which can't be defined by the number of simple Watt output only. 8W from a standard transistorized amps are nothing, even 50W or 100 transistor Watt can't produce this kind of energy.
But you think, its all bullshit to use the term energy and controlling this energy in the listening room?
Whats your alternative expression for this, and why do so many people with a full range horn speaker struggle so much with those energies in their listening rooms? Never heard about it? Never heard of methods to get rid of those problems?
I think you simply deny physical facts, but that's not my problem.
Btw, if you write about nearly unobtanium speaker systems, and deliver second hand personal subjective impressions, who helps this?
Such speakers have to be auditioned in person, there are some things in life that can't be delegated to others. I simply won't have believed if anyone have told me about those speakers and what kind of impression they gave to me. This is strictly a personal experience, not adequate to write about, one thing is the written text, the other thing is the real experience.
And if you deny to use the term "energy" for what they are able to reproduce, its all pointless writing anyway. Because that's what the experience is all about.
It's not their sheer size or their ability to play louder than other speakers, it's their ease and smoothness, their contrast between very loud and very subtle, and their ability to blow acoustic energies right in the face of the listener, what differentiate them from ordinary, more modern speaeker systems.
Huh? Your post contains an unfocused rant on audio topics that includes everything but the kitchen sink but what does this have to do with Tang's system? His new commissioned speakers are a very usual one-off design and there is some genuine curiosity from readers about what we will learn from an experienced listener when he hears them in his room.
totally agree. The pissing competition is ruining Tang's own thread about his own gear.
Surely mods can move all the mass-debate to its own thread about large baffles.
Are you worried he’d miss the WHOO, WHOO, WHOOOO tunnel sound of his subs added to everything including violins?
Understandably, the misconception and error in thinking here is that this speaker system is simply another piece of vintage with some wood paneling stuck on or a half baked DIY project as you see posted everywhere. This speaker pair is something new in the world; a completely new speaker system; built with the best components I know of irrespective of era. Not another speaker with random active subs either but a fully integrated speaker system with enhanced frequency response with matching electronics customized to Tang’s existing system. He knows what he’s getting! The baffle design is also unique and resonance based the design and materials allow for easy bass tuning within a predetermined range adapting the character of the sound to the system, environment and/or personal tastes. You’ll never get this level of integrations and coherence with frequency challenged satellite speakers married to some active subwoofer with generic plate amps and DSP digital crossovers; in this case another hybrid digitized sound that has nothing in common with a SET amplifier level of Lamm ML3.
The YT vids Tang posted here are easy to comprehend fluff pieces for purposes of communication between us as HIS speaker project progressed. His feedback is what determined the tuning range of the baffle. There’s a lot that can’t be conveyed with the YT medium like how a speaker pressurizes the room and because it’s digitized and canned it’s going to coverup a lot of the system/speaker’s deficiencies but enough is represented to have a conversation. Challenging music specially in analog domain and off a record will put everything from the source the speaker through it’s paces and it's where hybrid half active speakers choke most. I don’t know how much people can tell from a YT recording or what they’re using to playback these videos or even how an iphone recording of a difficult piece translates on YT when half the time the mic distorts the top end on louder passages but maybe some will get a glimpse of the system from this video. 1st and 3rd movements are slow but expansive, 2nd movement is where things really get exciting and challenging.
david
Did you read the posts before?Huh? Your post contains an unfocused rant on audio topics that includes everything but the kitchen sink but what does this have to do with Tang's system? His new commissioned speakers are a very usual one-off design and there is some genuine curiosity from readers about what we will learn from an experienced listener when he hears them in his room.
This is just your opinion, man.totally agree. The pissing competition is ruining Tang's own thread about his own gear.
Surely mods can move all the mass-debate to its own thread about large baffles.
This is just your opinion, man.
What is "pissing" you is a debate about the match of big speakers with modern amplifiers in way too small rooms and it's acoustic results for the sound achieved. If you just want "facebook" like positive comments about any random theme, then you are wrong in an audio forum, where critical positions should be allowed to any theme what's in discussion. If you can't tolerate this, don't read audio forums. State that you are an intolerant person to others opinions and everyone knows what personality you have. In the end, with such post, you only judge yourself.
...or a pair of good earsit´s always interesting when people do U-turns
takes some balls too IMO
it´s always interesting when people do U-turns
takes some balls too IMO
My U-turn came with increased exposure. Once I heard what I wanted, it was quite easy to change directions. Perhaps not so easy for everyone.
Knowing or realizing what you want - or coming to know what you want -- is the turn. Sometimes it's an epiphany, sometimes it takes years.
Likely for many of us, we cannot imagine what we want - we need to understand what is possible - we need to hear it. That's where exposure comes in.
I suspect that many of us don't ever really know what we want other than the next upgrade MK9.5, or the latest "rave reviewed", flavour of the month thing.
I think that someone, such as Peter, who finds what they really want and can be happy with it, without constant upgraditis, is truly lucky.
If what you want is based on some other gear or based on an idea in your head then I don't believe you will ever stop upgrading. If what you want is based on an external music example, then I think it's possible to get close enough to be satisfied.
For myself and I believe for Peter once there was understanding of natural sound through actual examples, the goal was clear.
If what you want is based on some other gear or based on an idea in your head then I don't believe you will ever stop upgrading. If what you want is based on an external music example, then I think it's possible to get close enough to be satisfied.
For myself and I believe for Peter once there was understanding of natural sound through actual examples, the goal was clear.