American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

[andromedaaudio]

I can kind of understand why magazines/ reviewers state the Mk 2 version is better most of the time
They simply dont wanna stab a manufacturer in the back ( plus keep future advertising in mind)

 

[bonzo75]

I have had disappointments when upgrading in the past.

This is more common than reported

 

[Lagonda]

Meanwhile, I enjoy my system every night of the week. Life’s short. You never know when you’ll be run over by a truck.

Especially when they drive on the wrong side of the road !

 

[bonzo75]

Meanwhile, I enjoy my system every night of the week. Life’s short. You never know when you’ll be run over by a truck.

I am sure if you sit in front of a system every week, life will be short. the longer you sit the shorter it will be

 

[andromedaaudio]

Statistically sitting in front of a system is safer then being on the road .

Ps Unless you have a fast food hotline going on

 

[PeterA]

So is the dearer is better mindset!

Dearer may or may not be better. It is harder to find and it is dearer for a reason.

 

[Argonaut]

On a personal, idiosyncratic, statistically invalid sample set of two, on one component I prefer the new version, and on another component I prefer my old version.

And In breaking news ,… Beverly Hills area Luxury HiFI dealer rushed to Hospital following attempt at Commercial Suicide

 

[Argonaut]

I have had disappointments when upgrading in the past.

Wives In Particular !

 

[Ron Resnick]

I understand you to be talking your book as an audio dealer of new equipment.

No, I was not. "Talking your book" is a Wall Street expression which refers to touting named stocks in one's portfolio. If I were "talking my book" here I would have related Clarisys Audio speakers to vintage speakers, but I wrote no such thing. As the term is generally used there is no "talking your book" if you don't mention your particular stock.

Sure stuff wears out, but that does not change the point about original construction and materials vs. re-work or repairs with different material that change the sound from the original sound.

Of course I agree that the sound of original versus the sound of re-work can sound different. Different could sound better than original or different could sound worse than original. I suggested that the sound of original can change over time as components decay.

That is equally true with contemporary gear.

For sure!

 

[Tangram]

Surely nostalgia plays a role when we get a dopamine hit from vintage gear. I drive a vintage Porsche 911. Every time I slip behind the wheel, that smell of oil ubiquitous in air-cooled Porsches (they’re actually oil-cooled, not air-cooled) mainlines straight into the pleasure zone of my brain.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Surely nostalgia plays a role when we get a dopamine hit from vintage gear. I drive a vintage Porsche 911. Every time I slip behind the wheel, that smell of oil ubiquitous in air-cooled Porsches (they’re actually oil-cooled, not air-cooled) mainlines straight into the pleasure zone of my brain.

Respectfully, this analogy does not apply to me, at least.

I find the fussiness associated with vinyl playback to be wholly annoying, and not remotely nostalgic or pleasurably tactile.

I genuinely enjoy the sound of many vintage audio systems, but the notion of nostalgia never occurs to me.

I completely understand, and I totally personally agree with, your point about vintage cars. For me, the analogy just does not cross over to audio.

I love operating the tape machine, but it has nothing to do with it being 40 years old. I would have the same positive feelings of operation if it had been manufactured last year.

I guess I see nothing affirmatively good merely from the fact that something is old. (Yikes!)

 

[Tangram]

I guess I see nothing affirmatively good merely from the fact that something is old. (Yikes!)

Good thing our wives don't think that way Ron!

 

[Lagonda]

Good thing our wives don't think that way Ron!

You win a trophy for that remark !

 

[PeterA]

No, I was not. "Talking your book" is a Wall Street expression which refers to touting named stocks in one's portfolio. If I were "talking my book" here I would have related Clarisys Audio speakers to vintage speakers, but I wrote no such thing. As the term is generally used there is no "talking your book" if you don't mention your particular stock.

Of course I agree that the sound of original versus the sound of re-work can sound different. Different could sound better than original or different could sound worse than original. I suggested that the sound of original can change over time as components decay.


For sure!

"Yikes, she's way out over her skis on this one", he told his boss about their colleague. None of them were skiers.

 

[bonzo75]

I suggested that the sound of original can change over time as components decay.

Originals do change over time and components decay, Alnico drivers magnet weakens, diaphragms and suspensions degrade etc, and these have to be checked and matched. Often people buy more than one pair to find a matched pair. Or get someone like GPA to check Altec pairs they have purchased.

However, this is easier if someone buys non-Alnico, or NOS, some of the drivers are available unused.

The sonic compares obviously count only if you are comparing a non-degraded original.

Reissues of drivers are not known to be as good. The GPA altecs for example do not have the same natural sound nor do they move as easily, by people who have been using both drivers for over two decades. On the other hand, JBLs can sound better with Be diaphragms.

Almost all speakers sound better with changed crossovers, and cabinets are often newer made. There isn't a set rule, but the stock seldom sounds good as a whole. That's why the restorer matters. This is for all products. For EMT 927, the dutch restorer is sought after. For TD 124, it's Schopper. It might be someone else for Garrard, someone else for Altec, Peter and Frank in German for Klangfilm, and so on. just like Graz and Henk were for Apogees. There are 50+ years of collective learnings to many vintage, so sufficient R&D and testing on what were done with very high budget R&D compared to the small companies of today.

 

[PeterA]

Surely nostalgia plays a role when we get a dopamine hit from vintage gear. I drive a vintage Porsche 911. Every time I slip behind the wheel, that smell of oil ubiquitous in air-cooled Porsches (they’re actually oil-cooled, not air-cooled) mainlines straight into the pleasure zone of my brain.

I wish I still had my 71 911 T. What a car that was.

What if one was never around to experience the old when it was new and he chooses it now, years later, anyway, in this case for sonic reasons? Yes, nostalgia may play a role for some in some instances, but for others it may simply be because specific vintage components are judged to sound better than their contemporary alternatives.

This thread is about a turntable that has its roots firmly planted in a specific approach from the past, and then takes it to extremes to improve upon what was. The sound is very similar, but it now goes further along the same direction.

 

[Tangram]

I wish I still had my 71 911 T. What a car that was.

What if one was never around to experience the old when it was new and he chooses it now, years later, anyway, in this case for sonic reasons? Yes, nostalgia may play a role for some in some instances, but for others it may simply be because specific vintage components are judged to sound better than their contemporary alternatives.

This thread is about a turntable that has its roots firmly planted in a specific approach from the past, and then takes it to extremes to improve upon what was. The sound is very similar, but it now goes further along the same direction.

That's a wonderful car! Do you remember the oil smell?

It's a funny thing. I'm nostalgic for the Kennedy era, even though I was born only months before JFK's assassination. Those beautiful Bugattis that always win at Pebble Beach? I certainly wasn't around for those but I've read The Great Gatsby and love those cars as a result. My 25-year old niece loves to thrift vintage clothes that are decades older than she is.

An interesting experiment would be to take (unbeknownst to the listener) a vintage amp and stuff its guts into a modern, blingy case. Setting aside that the casework may affect the sound, I wonder what the reaction would be.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Surely nostalgia plays a role when we get a dopamine hit from vintage gear. I drive a vintage Porsche 911. Every time I slip behind the wheel, that smell of oil ubiquitous in air-cooled Porsches (they’re actually oil-cooled, not air-cooled) mainlines straight into the pleasure zone of my brain.

How does the analogy hold with a '74 or '84 211 reconfigured by Singer for '24?
I'm still thinking about buying a 1969 Citroen DS21 in 2029...

 

[bonzo75]

These nostalgia analogies don't make any sense, nostalgia might exist for a vintage audio component from the 50s and for vinyl till 60s only for the active audiophiles alive from that era. For the rest, it is new and based on performance, not nostalgia.

Cars and computers are different, my guess is that most cars like computers, digital, and mobile have advanced with age. So if someone wants a typewriter, sure, that's nostalgia. It is not going to be better than a modern keyboard. It's different for audio, performance is superior of some older components including vinyl and valves. For the newbies who want to visit the vintage modern threads there are many on the forum, you can read those.

 

[andromedaaudio]

For hifi it does .
The Basics of valve tech and transducer tech havent evolved at all.
Car tech has evolved massively

So its no wonder a well maintaned correct functioning machine / of that era is able to outperform modern designs.