Any Bergmann "Galder" owners here ?

Galder Trio.jpg

Pulled the trigger and ordered a black velvet & silver Galder with vacuum hold down & the Odin tonearm. Any cartridge recommendations ? How about the second tone-arm ? I have a Van den Hul Colibri platimum that I was thinking of using...

Though the new black & 24k Gold Galder looks stunning, it would look out of place in my system. The black velvet & silver Galder should compliment the black & silver Ethos CD player and of course the rest of the Gryphon electronics. Looking forward to having a reference turntable in the system again. My last reference table was a Brinkmann Balance. I have approx. 7,000 records, so no shortage in the software department.

I have a fully kitted out vintage Luxman PD-444 with a couple of tonearms & various mono cartridges for playing pre RIAA and RIAA reissues through a mono phono stage with variable EQ. So I am set there, thanks.

Galder_velvet black & silver.jpg
 

Comments

ack

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#41
Surprised no one has linked to these videos of the vacuum hold-down

 
#42
. I think it is either 36,500 or 37,000
Alma Music & Audio are currently the only dealer in the USA and sell a Black velvet / silver Galder (with vacuum hold down) & Odin for $37,000. Black & black for $39,000 and Black & 24k Gold for $50k.
 

Tango

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#43
then there is the vacuum hold down and it's influence on the whole system.
What is a sonic effect of a vacuum hold down? Do you find a substantial enough (big fish) sonic attribute if your records are quite flat and not warp. I have difficulty hearing any meaningful difference from my Techdas. Often I forgot to turn on the vacuum holddown button.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

Mike Lavigne

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#44
What is a sonic effect of a vacuum hold down? Do you find a substantial enough (big fish) sonic attribute if your records are quite flat and not warp. I have difficulty hearing any meaningful difference from my Techdas. Often I forgot to turn on the vacuum holddown button.

Kind regards,
Tang
i'm neutral on the specific sonic effect as good or bad for the majority of pressings. obviously when you need it you really need it. when i had my Rockport next to my NVS i could not hear any difference; but how do you pick it out from the overall character of a turntable?

i think we have to judge the whole system.

the question would be more along the lines of either features and price points, whether something was less done to add that feature? or maybe a compromise somewhere to have it included. and both those ideas are purely theoretical, and i'm not pointing at the Galder with those thoughts.

i can tell you that i do wish one of my 3 tt's had vacuum hold down. if i ever considered adding a 4th, that would be a requirement. i have all the other bases covered.
 

Tango

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#45
..obviously when you need it you really need it...

i think we have to judge the whole system...


i can tell you that i do wish one of my 3 tt's had vacuum hold down. if i ever considered adding a 4th, that would be a requirement. i have all the other bases covered.

That is pretty much how it is with vacuum hold down for me too.
 
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XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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#46
i'm neutral on the specific sonic effect as good or bad for the majority of pressings. obviously when you need it you really need it. when i had my Rockport next to my NVS i could not hear any difference; but how do you pick it out from the overall character of a turntable?

i think we have to judge the whole system.

the question would be more along the lines of either features and price points, whether something was less done to add that feature? or maybe a compromise somewhere to have it included. and both those ideas are purely theoretical, and i'm not pointing at the Galder with those thoughts.

i can tell you that i do wish one of my 3 tt's had vacuum hold down. if i ever considered adding a 4th, that would be a requirement. i have all the other bases covered.
Mike. Just buy a Disc Flattener - no need for vacuum hold then.
 

Mike Lavigne

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#47
Mike. Just buy a Disc Flattener - no need for vacuum hold then.
i have had a disc flattener for 6-7 years. never used it. it sits just there. honestly it's rare i find a pressing audibly effected by warps. don't even think about it. yet the vacuum does have it's attractions. it's not until i own three tt's again that i even ponder that question. suppose i'm trying to justify it. would not be the first time.:cool:

the problem with the Flattener, is that the pressings that i'd like to use it on are a few of my most precious 45 rpm 4-disc sets that are irreplacable. and since they apparently play fine, i live with it. the other rare occasions where i find a pressing with warps it's typically not worth the effort.
 

ack

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#48
A vacuum hold-down has little to do with fixing warped disca, and mostly with enforcing the LP-to-platter interface
 
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Mike Lavigne

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#49
A vacuum hold-down has little to do with fixing warped disca, and mostly with enforcing the LP-to-platter interface
i owned the Rockport vacuum system for 8 years; it flattened pretty much any warp it encountered.

i guess we can argue semantics about what fixing a warp and pressing/platter interface means. i suspect we are meaning the same things. i use record weights on two of my three tt's and those certainly assist pressing-platter interface. and agree that that approach is completely satisfactory to me. yet seeing the warp 'gone' while playing has it's benefit too.

likely a degree of noise is added to a warped record while playing with the warps still present. how musically significant it is would be the question, and that would be balanced against the theoretical 'life' removed from the music by the damping from the vacuum process. a theoretical trade-off.

i still like seeing the record sucked flat.
 
Last edited:

bonzo75

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#50
Record weights on unsuspended tables are superb. They don't show much effect if vacuum is on.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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#51
Record weights on unsuspended tables are superb. They don't show much effect if vacuum is on.
Ked, if your comment is directed at me, none of my tt's have vacuum. and none of my record weights seem to add anything on my Saskia model two (which does have 'stillpoint'-like integral footers.....is that considered 'suspended?). can't tell the difference. so i don't use it there. helps on the CS Port and NVS. the NVS is not suspended, but does have it's own decoupling shelf with which i did use the record weight, and also with the active i use it too.

never tried one with vacuum. does not seem logical.... and will take your word for it. i do see that TechDas offers one.
 

ack

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#52
i owned the Rockport vacuum system for 8 years; it flattened pretty much any warp it encountered.

i guess we can argue semantics about what fixing a warp and pressing/platter interface means. i suspect we are meaning the same things. i use record weights on two of my three tt's and those certainly assist pressing-platter interface. and agree that that approach is completely satisfactory to me. yet seeing the warp 'gone' while playing has it's benefit too.

likely a degree of noise is added to a warped record while playing with the warps still present. how musically significant it is would be the question, and that would be balanced against the theoretical 'life' removed from the music by the damping from the vacuum process. a theoretical trade-off.

i still like seeing the record sucked flat.
What I am saying is that a warped disc is not really that much of a problem, though, yes, it's nice to see all warps flattened; by contrast, properly implementing the interface is of much higher value and what I look for the vacuum hold-down to do. For example, with the custom interface that I have built in my turntable, the lip of the LP hangs out in the air; then the outer ring presses the LP down on that end, and then the center weight on the other, for a similar effect to a vacuum hold-down; but I would still love to have a vacuum.
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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#53
What is a sonic effect of a vacuum hold down? Do you find a substantial enough (big fish) sonic attribute if your records are quite flat and not warp. I have difficulty hearing any meaningful difference from my Techdas. Often I forgot to turn on the vacuum holddown button.

Kind regards,
Tang
There's a difference but nothing meaningful IME even with the older Micro Seikis. It's a dampening method more than anything else and depending on the recording and the system some people like it's effect and others don't. The difference from using a weight for the same purpose is that you can dial in dampening by design as needed, you can't do it with vacuum.

david
 

asiufy

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#54
You can adjust the level of vacuum in the Galder. I have ours at or close to the minimum.
 

ddk

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#55
You can adjust the level of vacuum in the Galder. I have ours at or close to the minimum.
It's a vacuum seal, you either have it or not.

david
 

Mike Lavigne

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#56
on the CS Port, the air adjustment is mostly related to the arm performance, not the platter air bearing. Mik told me he initially made the mistake of messing with the setting, and that it took weeks to get it right again. he warned me to leave it be. and i have and the arm has behaved perfectly.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#57
on the CS Port, the air adjustment is mostly related to the arm performance, not the platter air bearing. Mik told me he initially made the mistake of messing with the setting, and that it took weeks to get it right again. he warned me to leave it be. and i have and the arm has behaved perfectly.
Mike, I too run my LT at the lowest practical flow rate. Moderate but discernable advantage over higher rates.
 

asiufy

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#58
Let me rephrase that, you can adjust the amount of air going into the vacuum hold down separate from the platter.
 
#59
That's one of the best looking turntables out there, just gorgeous!
Bergmann also offers a 40kg (that's 90 pounds!) copper platter upgrade (3400€), which IMO looks even better than the aluminum one
What is the sonic benefit of a 40kg copper platter versus an 11.8 kg aluminium platter ?
thanks
Philip
 

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