Any Bergmann "Galder" owners here ?

Galder Trio.jpg

Pulled the trigger and ordered a black velvet & silver Galder with vacuum hold down & the Odin tonearm. Any cartridge recommendations ? How about the second tone-arm ? I have a Van den Hul Colibri platimum that I was thinking of using...

Though the new black & 24k Gold Galder looks stunning, it would look out of place in my system. The black velvet & silver Galder should compliment the black & silver Ethos CD player and of course the rest of the Gryphon electronics. Looking forward to having a reference turntable in the system again. My last reference table was a Brinkmann Balance. I have approx. 7,000 records, so no shortage in the software department.

I have a fully kitted out vintage Luxman PD-444 with a couple of tonearms & various mono cartridges for playing pre RIAA and RIAA reissues through a mono phono stage with variable EQ. So I am set there, thanks.

Galder_velvet black & silver.jpg
 

Comments

marmota

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2016
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#61
What is the sonic benefit of a 40kg copper platter versus an 11.8 kg aluminium platter ?
thanks
Philip
I wish I knew the exact answer, I only said it looks better to me. The photo is from Bergmann's Facebook. You should ask Bergmann about it and share it here, they're more than qualified to give a correct answer, it's their turntable after all.
I expect it to sound better, but that's a pure conjecture by me based on intuition and not experience.
 
May 30, 2010
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#62
What is the expected servicing interval for this (or any other air flow based) LT arm? 4 years tops?
My 30 year old Eminent Technology II tonearm never needed service, I replaced the paper air filter a couple of times because it was very inexpensive. Although the instructions show how to disassemble and clean the air manifold I never had to do it - probably because I always used it with a good air filter in a non polluted zone.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#63
What is the sonic benefit of a 40kg copper platter versus an 11.8 kg aluminium platter ?
thanks
Philip
Quite a lot Philip. A light aluminum platter rings, sound is colored with an upper bass boost and little low bass. The copper platter has a lot less coloration than aluminum and the extra mass translates into better deeper bass without upper bass low mid bump of aluminum. If used properly the additional inertia of the heavier platter translates into more resolution. I'm not familiar with the copper platter's construction but it could be a little lean compared to the aluminum.

david
 

bazelio

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2016
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#64
the extra mass translates into better deeper bass
...
I'm not familiar with the copper platter's construction but it could be a little lean compared to the aluminum.

david
Hi David, how does this work? The extra mass translates into deeper bass (this is what I thought based on anecdotal experience). But then, you say the copper platter could be a little lean compared to the aluminum? Do you mean because of the reduction in mid/upper bass bump? Would it be more linear and only lean in a relative sense, or lean overall (as in lacking)?

Thanks.
 

bazelio

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Sep 27, 2016
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#66
Aluminum won't ring with a rubber mat on it. The problem is rubber sounds bleh by itself.
I heard a Dobbins Garrard 301 with the rubber mat compared to a copper platter mat. The copper was a very noticeable improvement. The rubber really killed stage depth and created a wall of sound effect.
 
Likes: Folsom

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#67
I find platter choice/mat material one of the wackier aspects of audio. Just how does this all make such a difference? Just resonance/vibration related?
 
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Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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#68
Marc,

While they can stop some noise from coming up, the majority of it is an interaction with the LP when it turns into a speaker. We all know that if you turn your volume completely off and listen near the stylus you can hear music. That's because it basically turns into a mini speaker. What's underneath it will affect that interaction, which in turn affects the the stylus itself. Some things absorb, some reflection, some ring, etc. But for example they don't uniformly do one or the other. A rubber mat will absorb deep frequencies but almost nothing that the LP produces, and will be reflective to other frequencies it does. Different surfaces will also affect how the vibrations travel along the LP as well.

But for them to affect it in certain ways they have to make contact, and a lot of stuff doesn't really if you have a weight/clamp.
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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#69
i have had a disc flattener for 6-7 years. never used it. it sits just there. honestly it's rare i find a pressing audibly effected by warps. don't even think about it. yet the vacuum does have it's attractions. it's not until i own three tt's again that i even ponder that question. suppose i'm trying to justify it. would not be the first time.:cool:

the problem with the Flattener, is that the pressings that i'd like to use it on are a few of my most precious 45 rpm 4-disc sets that are irreplacable. and since they apparently play fine, i live with it. the other rare occasions where i find a pressing with warps it's typically not worth the effort.
Never used it, really - I have owned my Orb DF-02 for over 10 years now and it is always used. If something is not quite flat - I just put it into the flattener overnight and in the morning its flat. With the exception of a GZ pressing 10 years ago ( when GZ were using a soft vinyl compound - they have changed back now) I have never had one record damaged by the flattener.
I do it more to save the cartridge suspension going up and down over those dished vinyl over and over again.

I still buy a lot of new release vinyl, so the flattener is invaluable to me.
 
May 30, 2010
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#70
Marc,

While they can stop some noise from coming up, the majority of it is an interaction with the LP when it turns into a speaker. We all know that if you turn your volume completely off and listen near the stylus you can hear music. That's because it basically turns into a mini speaker. What's underneath it will affect that interaction, which in turn affects the the stylus itself. Some things absorb, some reflection, some ring, etc. But for example they don't uniformly do one or the other. A rubber mat will absorb deep frequencies but almost nothing that the LP produces, and will be reflective to other frequencies it does. Different surfaces will also affect how the vibrations travel along the LP as well.

But for them to affect it in certain ways they have to make contact, and a lot of stuff doesn't really if you have a weight/clamp.
Long ago I read a test that was carried with an LP that had a zone with signals and music and a silent endless groove. Two tonearms were being used - one to play the signal and music zone and the other to listen to the silent groove while the other section was being played. Several types of turntable mats were listened in this test. It would be great to repeat such tests with current top audio analyzers - it says a lot about what happens to the energy released by the stylus in the LP.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
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#71
Long ago I read a test that was carried with an LP that had a zone with signals and music and a silent endless groove. Two tonearms were being used - one to play the signal and music zone and the other to listen to the silent groove while the other section was being played. Several types of turntable mats were listened in this test. It would be great to repeat such tests with current top audio analyzers - it says a lot about what happens to the energy released by the stylus in the LP.
I would love to see the data.
 

Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
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#72
Aluminum won't ring with a rubber mat on it. The problem is rubber sounds bleh by itself.
A nice thick stainless platter, with a leather mat is my preference.
Thank you ddk ! :)
 
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#73
Quite a lot Philip. A light aluminum platter rings, sound is colored with an upper bass boost and little low bass. The copper platter has a lot less coloration than aluminum and the extra mass translates into better deeper bass without upper bass low mid bump of aluminum. If used properly the additional inertia of the heavier platter translates into more resolution. I'm not familiar with the copper platter's construction but it could be a little lean compared to the aluminum.

david
David
How about Gunmetal versus Copper ?
Johnnie Bergmann emailed me last night and said he could also offer a 40kg gunmetal platter; he wrote:
"Some analog users, like the sound of gunmetal, which should be fuller and warmer."
Any thoughts ?
thanks,
Philip
 
Likes: marmota
#74
A nice thick stainless platter, with a leather mat is my preference.
Thank you ddk ! :)
Sorry, but a leather mat is not an option with a vacuum hold-down on the Galder.
 
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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#75
Hi David, how does this work? The extra mass translates into deeper bass (this is what I thought based on anecdotal experience). But then, you say the copper platter could be a little lean compared to the aluminum? Do you mean because of the reduction in mid/upper bass bump? Would it be more linear and only lean in a relative sense, or lean overall (as in lacking)?

Thanks.
As a material copper is more linear sounding than aluminum in the bass region but leaner mid up but IMO overall preferable to aluminum which I'm not a fan of. But I'm oversimplifying everything, there are many other factors that matter when designing the platter.
Aluminum won't ring with a rubber mat on it. The problem is rubber sounds bleh by itself.
Thorens and Garrard made some excellent sounding turntables with rubber mats, they knew their compounds.

david
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#77
David
How about Gunmetal versus Copper ?
Johnnie Bergmann emailed me last night and said he could also offer a 40kg gunmetal platter; he wrote:
"Some analog users, like the sound of gunmetal, which should be fuller and warmer."
Any thoughts ?
thanks,
Philip
Leaving overall design alone gunmetal is smoother sounding than copper but not by much. Every metal has it's manufacturing quirks and availability in each market, I haven't seen gun metal platters anywhere outside of Japan. Neither material is poor sounding and with proper design you'll have world class turntables using copper or gunmetal.

Sorry, but a leather mat is not an option with a vacuum hold-down on the Galder.
Depends on the platter and hold down design, Micro Seikis had leather mats with their vacuum platters.

david
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#78
A nice thick stainless platter, with a leather mat is my preference.
Thank you ddk ! :)
Always and still my favorite combination :)!

david
 
Likes: Lagonda

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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#79
Any thoughts on my fairly unique solution? A 9kg Al platter, but the lp rests on a half dozen small Delrin pods bonded to the platter ie not contact of lp directly w platter.

I then use a heavy periphery ring and medium mass (450g) record weight to mate lp as fully as possible to the Delrin pods.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#80
Any thoughts on my fairly unique solution? A 9kg Al platter, but the lp rests on a half dozen small Delrin pods bonded to the platter ie not contact of lp directly w platter.

I then use a heavy periphery ring and medium mass (450g) record weight to mate lp as fully as possible to the Delrin pods.
Not really Marc pressure points like that don't make sense to me except that it's an easy way to deal with resonance. I don't know if you recall Transcriptor Skeleton tts were made with the same idea first.

david
 

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