Any cyclists here?

[Gregadd]

Bicycle{ Dis} Comfort

The wo most common problems I see on the bike trails that contribute to discomfort are:
1. The wrong bike for the terrain.
I see it all te time a full suspension mountain bike with knobby tires traversing a relatively smooth and flat surface. Pushing all that weight and rolling resistance is a terrible waste of energy. You can run a fat tire with an inverted tread and center bead if you encounter rough terrain. Shock absorption can be handled by a spring loaded handlebar stem and seat post.
2. Improper seat height
Improper seat height can result in hyperflexion or hyperextension of the knee joint. It also can result of riding on the arch instead of the ball of the foot, Riders can usually cure knee pain by properly adjusting the seat properly. it also can result in loss of power. That causes greater exertion. Small differences can matter.
IME/IMO

 

[Atmasphere]

It also can result of riding on the arch instead of the ball of the foot,

That's actually where you want to ride FWIW. That's why to get a proper fit if using cleats you start with them cleats moved all the way back. For some reason its taking the shoe companies a while to sort this out. A least one pedal company has

https://pedalinginnovations.com/

I started riding these is 2018. They take a bit of getting used to, and there are a number of advantages (weight isn't one of them): you have more freedom to move your foot around, meaning you can vary seat height simply on that basis. This is handy over hundreds or thousands of miles to help prevent Achilles and knee repetitive injury. You can also get your glutes greater involvement. I find I can climb with them as well as I ever could with cleats, but no danger of falling over if you can't get your foot out of the pedal. In the middle of nowhere, not being injured on this account can be really nice. I also find my cadence to be a bit slower FWIW.

 

[Gregadd]

Funny Ralph. Since I agree with almost everything you say bout amplifiers. Yes, you do need arch support for deadlifts and squats. Stiff soles are one way to get it. Getting on your toes is a way to work your calf muscles. I lifted weights in the winter and cycled in the summer.
Caveat Emptor. Those who push new ideas to sell you a product.
Most all cleated shoes/pedals provide various degrees of "float." I preferred no float.
Note: Do not pull up on your pedals. The purpose of clipped or clipless pedals is to make the foot "one" with a the pedal. The upstroke she be as if you are wiping mud from the sole of your shoe. The goal is to make circles as you pedal in a continuous stroke.

 

[Gregadd]

I will overlook the marketing hype.
I have no problem irf someone choses to ride on the arch rather than the ball of their foot. As long is their leg is properly extended. I criticized those who are forced to ride on the arch because their seat height is low. To tell someone the prefer method is to ride on the arch is a stretch. The arch must be supported. There are different ways to do that. In weight liffting you want to keep your foot flat on the flor preferably in a heel-less shoe.
I actually run an oversized pedal on my Raleigh C40 that supports the arch and ball of my foot. I wear a stiff soled boot with steel toe for other reasons.
I will ask the question for you. If riding on your arch is the preferred position, why do I need his pedals to do it. What about all the people riding on arch without his pedal? See my caveat above.

 

[Gregadd]

my pedal

 

[Atmasphere]

Nice!

I'm in agreement with you on most of this. WRT the arch, obviously you don't need the pedals if the cleats on your shoes can go back far enough- any cycling shoe has enough support to allow this to work otherwise. For me the big deal is numbness in toes and hands whch can be a result of repetitive injury over time. On ultras like the Tour Divide this is very common!

I really couldn't get a handle on that until I went to the Catalyst pedal. I don't even think about toe numbness now; its been years since I experienced it last. I readily concede that if you have things set up right this won't happen with bike shoes, but after years of trying and numerous bike fits I gave up. Plus if I am really fatigued and in the middle of nowhere, I can get my foot off the pedal so I see it as a safety thing.

 

[MTB Vince]

I will overlook the marketing hype.
I have no problem irf someone choses to ride on the arch rather than the ball of their foot. As long is their leg is properly extended. I criticized those who are forced to ride on the arch because their seat height is low. To tell someone the prefer method is to ride on the arch is a stretch. The arch must be supported. There are different ways to do that. In weight liffting you want to keep your foot flat on the flor preferably in a heel-less shoe.
I actually run an oversized pedal on my Raleigh C40 that supports the arch and ball of my foot. I wear a stiff soled boot with steel toe for other reasons.
I will ask the question for you. If riding on your arch is the preferred position, why do I need his pedals to do it. What about all the people riding on arch without his pedal? See my caveat above.

I am a a Precision Fit certified bicycle fitter and the owner of an enthusiast bike shop that employs a fully equipped PrecisionFit bike fitting studio. Provided that you are wearing suitably stiff clipless compatible shoes, for the past decade best practice cleat placement has been with the cleat as far behind the ball of the foot as the shoe's mounting hardware allows- just as @Atmasphere contends. This shortens the lever created by the distance between heel and pedal axle making it easier for the calf muscle to stabilize the foot. The end result is greater cycling endurance.

 

[mitch2+]

I have those exact Mzyrh pedals from Gregg's post on my fatty for winter riding, which turned out to be a way better solution than clipping in in the snow. For ease of switching between bikes, I use SPD on all my other bikes. I agree with moving the cleat back as far as possible on the shoe and have done that. Do most of my summer road riding in Shimano's old style (i.e., stiff soled) biking sandals.

 

[Gregadd]

One of the easiest ways to pprevent numbness is to constnatly change your position.Also shifitng weright disteribution.whereover the body touches the bile. If you can increase the surface area. Gel inserts also dispurse the pressure.

I am a a Precision Fit certified bicycle fitter and the owner of an enthusiast bike shop that employs a fully equipped PrecisionFit bike fitting studio. Provided that you are wearing suitably stiff clipless compatible shoes, for the past decade best practice cleat placement has been with the cleat as far behind the ball of the foot as the shoe's mounting hardware allows- just as @Atmasphere contends. This shortens the lever created by the distance between heel and pedal axle making it easier for the calf muscle to stabilize the foot. The end result is greater cycling endurance.

I wonder was that always your position? When did you come to that decision? My experience says you are wrong. It may be that one approach serves a specific goal better than others. My view is the prevailng view. That's why he hails his position as new discovery.
Power is derived the quad vs. glute. My position maximizes the elimination of the dead spot at the bottom of the stroke. 40 years of doing it this way and watching others do it tells me this maximizes speed.
I am not an expert but I have been professionally fitted. I was being polite . They would laugh at advice to put arch over the spindle of the pedal
If we are doing this by vote I could easily start a poll form my cycling community.
as they say different strokes for different folks.

 

[Gregadd]

Pounds per square inch. We know that pressure is a function of force and surface area. To reduce pressure we want to maximize the surface area. The larger the surface area the lower the pressure. we can also to use gel. even though there is a small surface area gel spreads the force over the surface of the gel.
Consequently a gel insert in the shoes would reduce pressure. It is much cheaper than new pedals and shoes.

 

[Atmasphere]

One of the easiest ways to pprevent numbness is to constnatly change your position.Also shifitng weright disteribution.whereover the body touches the bile. If you can increase the surface area. Gel inserts also dispurse the pressure.

I wonder was that always your position? When did you come to that decision? My experience says you are wrong. It may be that one approach serves a specific goal better than others. My view is the prevailng view. That's why he hails his position as new discovery.
Power is derived the quad vs. glute. My position maximizes the elimination of the dead spot at the bottom of the stroke. 40 years of doing it this way and watching others do it tells me this maximizes speed.
I am not an expert but I have been professionally fitted. I was being polite . They would laugh at advice to put arch over the spindle of the pedal
If we are doing this by vote I could easily start a poll form my cycling community.
as they say different strokes for different folks.

FWIW when I first started riding on the Divide 6 years ago the question of clipless vs flats was there and had been there for some years. The advice to move the cleats all the way back was also part of that conversation back then. Why the shoe makers haven't sorted this out is one of those bicycling traditions that will likely die a hard death- I've no doubt that this will still be a topic ten years from now. Because I had fittings fail my so much I had to learn a lot about fit on my own and one thing that really stands out when you research this is much like audio: there's a lot of misinformation out there, much of it based on tradition and nothing else.

A simple way to know is simply try it. It costs nothing to move your cleats back. When you do so, you'll want to raise your seat slightly as well. When I tried this I found my use of the cleats vastly improved and less problems with my hands as well- they're related. I just got tired of falling over- in the middle of nowhere that can be more than a bit of embarrassment. The last time it happened to me there was a rock I barely missed that looked like it would have affected the side of my head even more negatively than it is already.

Of course the Catalyst has a lot of surface area. Its like using more of your foot, not unlike what you do when walking. If you had a shoe with support, and the cleats could go back far enough it would work the same way.

 

[MTB Vince]

...I wonder was that always your position? When did you come to that decision? My experience says you are wrong. It may be that one approach serves a specific goal better than others. My view is the prevailng view. That's why he hails his position as new discovery.
Power is derived the quad vs. glute. My position maximizes the elimination of the dead spot at the bottom of the stroke. 40 years of doing it this way and watching others do it tells me this maximizes speed.
I am not an expert but I have been professionally fitted. I was being polite . They would laugh at advice to put arch over the spindle of the pedal
If we are doing this by vote I could easily start a poll form my cycling community.
as they say different strokes for different folks.

My bicycle shop has been serious about great fit since I opened it in 1992 (30 years ago). Back then cleats centered beneath the ball of your foot was the standard. In the past two decades the understanding of cycling bio-mechanics has evolved considerably with sophisticated motion capture photography, pressure mapping, and power analysis.

If you were to poll the best, most respected professional bike fitters in the industry, you will discover that your stance and understanding is out of date. BTW, I wasn't implying that you should put the middle of the arch of your foot over the pedal spindle. I said you should push the cleats back as far as the shoe allows. And to that end many brands of shoes have shifted the T-nut hardware on their current shoes rearward to accommodate further behind-the-ball cleat placement.

 

[DaveC]

I like James' fitness programs and riding advise but not sold on the pedals, weight and shape are not to my liking but pedals are very personal. I also find I like to change my foot position on climbs from ball to midfoot, but on the dh I don't like my foot that much forward.

I recently got these pedals, made in Durango, if anything they are too grippy and it takes a bit more to adjust foot position on the pedals but they are extremely stable, lightweight, good shape to deflect and slide off rocks, great use of recycled/chopped cf reinforced plastic too. Seems very similar to the chopped cf bike tire levers Revel (in Carbondale) came up with, I wonder if there's any relation...

Tectonic Components

www.tectonic.bike

 

[Gregadd]

Yeah tube amps and vinyl records are out of date, too.

 

[Gregadd]

FWIW when I first started riding on the Divide 6 years ago the question of clipless vs flats was there and had been there for some years. The advice to move the cleats all the way back was also part of that conversation back then. Why the shoe makers haven't sorted this out is one of those bicycling traditions that will likely die a hard death- I've no doubt that this will still be a topic ten years from now. Because I had fittings fail my so much I had to learn a lot about fit on my own and one thing that really stands out when you research this is much like audio: there's a lot of misinformation out there, much of it based on tradition and nothing else.

A simple way to know is simply try it. It costs nothing to move your cleats back. When you do so, you'll want to raise your seat slightly as well. When I tried this I found my use of the cleats vastly improved and less problems with my hands as well- they're related. I just got tired of falling over- in the middle of nowhere that can be more than a bit of embarrassment. The last time it happened to me there was a rock I barely missed that looked like it would have affected the side of my head even more negatively than it is already.

Of course the Catalyst has a lot of surface area. Its like using more of your foot, not unlike what you do when walking. If you had a shoe with support, and the cleats could go back far enough it would work the same way.

I think part of the problem is you were in search of a solution to problem I never had.

 

[Gregadd]

I have those exact Mzyrh pedals from Gregg's post on my fatty for winter riding, which turned out to be a way better solution than clipping in in the snow. For ease of switching between bikes, I use SPD on all my other bikes. I agree with moving the cleat back as far as possible on the shoe and have done that. Do most of my summer road riding in Shimano's old style (i.e., stiff soled) biking sandals.

Beautiful shoe. Not for a diabetic or a road racer.

 

[Atmasphere]

I think part of the problem is you were in search of a solution to problem I never had.

Very possibly!

 

[Gregadd]

t.

 

[Gregadd]

 

[bazelio]

It was a toasty but fun ride.