Are SOTA systems worth the effort?

[Addicted to hifi]

Would mostly agree about diminishing returns...except the two best systems I have heard (not counting big WE speakers systems) were well North of $1M (one was over $2M). They blew the paradigm apart and more was really a lot more.

In most cases you get what you pay for and most expensive systems I have heard were better than cheaper ones.

 

[Al M.]

In most cases you get what you pay for and most expensive systems I have heard were better than cheaper ones.

Depends. One important factor is that a better system will only sound as such if the room, room acoustics and setup in the room allow for it.

As Mike said, it depends on the level of room and system development, and achieving great performance takes a lot of passion and work.

 

[christoph]

In most cases you get what you pay for and most expensive systems I have heard were better than cheaper ones.

This IME is only valid (at best) when you move up the ladder within a brand

 

[microstrip]

(...) For me, SOTA is a stereo with impeccable specs that I can listen to night after night for years and have zero interest in changing anything.

IMHO then it depends mostly on your attitude towards stereo reproduction. Listening to stereo is an uncontrolled experience in an extremely diverse environment and only listeners can decide when they stop.

Every time I see someone begins speaking or writing about the system they will keep for retirement (or to bu buried with ) I become uninterested.

 

[microstrip]

In most cases you get what you pay for and most expensive systems I have heard were better than cheaper ones.

I often write the same - for me the rule is that more money adequately spent returns better sound quality than less money. Some people will be eager to write about exceptions to this rule, most of the time because of their preference or poorly assemble and set up systems in demos and shops - decent audiophiles should not smash friends systems in public forums.

 

[microstrip]

This IME is only valid (at best) when you move up the ladder within a brand

Preference, my dear Watson, preference ...

IMHO we must manage to screen a general debate on SOTA from our individual preference.

 

[PeterA]

IMHO then it depends mostly on your attitude towards stereo reproduction. Listening to stereo is an uncontrolled experience in an extremely diverse environment and only listeners can decide when they stop.

Every time I see someone begins speaking or writing about the system they will keep for retirement (or to bu buried with ) I become uninterested.

Fransisco, it seems you are still searching having gone through what appears to be a lot of very high end gear over the years. This is certainly one approach that many people follow. It’s easy to lose interest in someone else’s system if it is no longer changing. They are left to enjoy it and you have nothing more to learn from their journey.

 

[andromedaaudio]

IMHO we must manage to screen a general debate on SOTA from our individual preference.

Then its a artificial debate .
Who cares what somebody else states as SOTA , if it doesnt tick your box it ll be on the internet / for sale after 3-6 months.
Plus certain systems favour certain kinds of music its unavoidable

 

[microstrip]

Fransisco, it seems you are still searching having gone through what appears to be a lot of very high end gear over the years. This is certainly one approach that many people follow. It’s easy to lose interest in someone else’s system if it is no longer changing. They are left to enjoy it and you have nothing more to learn from their journey.

Curiously we have a lot to learn from people who have stable systems - only people who do not understand what is stereo can think that they know it all.

I am in the high-end hobby mostly for the fun of it - I do not find necessary to pretende that it is just for the music. The fun means the social, entertainment, technological and scientific aspects of it.

 

[PeterA]

Curiously we have a lot to learn from people who have stable systems - only people who do not understand what is stereo can think that they know it all.

I am in the high-end hobby mostly for the fun of it - I do not find necessary to pretende that it is just for the music. The fun means the social, entertainment, technological and scientific aspects of it.

I don’t think anyone knows it all. And I think everyone is in it for the fun of it. What is fun to each of us may be slightly different.

with regards to the state of the art, we do here anecdotal stories of people taking a step back and simplifying and finding more enjoyment in the hobby. I am referring to recent stories by Jim Smith and Jeff Day of their own experience after many years.

There is no better or worse approach to this hobby, just what is best for the individual and what he’s trying to get out of it.

we all learn from our mistakes and from our experimentations. I think the important thing is not to have too many regrets.

 

[rando]

Every time I see someone begins speaking or writing about the system they will keep for retirement (or to bu buried with ) I become uninterested.

"SOTA in xxxx"

Applying the high end rule of not buying from those with a brand established less than 10 years, often more. To audiophiles pursuing the high end. Provokes a serious question of how we might buy what someone who knows of says and disregard those with established bases of devoted interest.

By no means is the above quote wrong in any sense. Certainly not on a forum where your unquoted interests have basis. Conversationally, it appears more than one type of SOTA effort is worthwhile. I see a lot of vintage parts/equipment in modern high end systems. Someone had to keep those fires banked.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I think the important thing is not to have too many regrets.

Regrets? Only of not being able to keep some of the excellent audio units that I enjoyed a lot!

 

[microstrip]

(...) with regards to the state of the art, we do here anecdotal stories of people taking a step back and simplifying and finding more enjoyment in the hobby. I am referring to recent stories by Jim Smith and Jeff Day of their own experience after many years. (...)

I was not aware of such step back experiences - can you or some of our members post some links to sites documenting these cases?

 

[stehno]

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - Rich Guys and Reviewers Running Amok in Hi-Fi

www.soundstagehifi.com

Ran across this article a few weeks ago and thought Schneider summarized things pretty well.

 

[dcathro]

Diminishing returns are not a part of SOTA. IMO YG Acoustics makes only one SOTA speaker, Sonja XV, now XVi, Wilson makes just one as well, Chronosonic XVX. They are designed to reproduce the sound of a symphony orchestra in a listening room. Wilson used the Vienna in the Musicverien, YG the Berlin as their goals. And succeeded. They play it all and it is evident in all music, not just orchestral. The lower line speakers aren't designed for that and don't get there.

The reverse is true -- each compromise for economy takes away chunks of sound. The XVs are 20 drivers in four large towers. Haileys are 6 drivers in two much smaller towers. The XVs play it all. How much do Haileys play?

You already know this. The question was rhetorical.

Martin Colloms told me many years ago that it was possible to design a two way crossover in a few days, that a 3 way was much more difficult taking perhaps six months, and that 4 ways were almost impossible to get right.

I have been working on my own build 3 way for the past 14 months, I am close to getting the sound I want, but not quite.

I used to run 4 way Alon Phalanxs, which were considered a SOTA contender in their day and I spent a year upgrading and fine tuning the crossovers to try and get the sound I wanted. I would never try another 4 way!

When I look at commercial SOTA speakers that are 4+ way multi driver speakers, I have to wonder about how the designer has brought that together into a coherent whole, and then also how the user is able to keep that coherency it in their room.

I believe that coherence is essential for a speaker to give long term enjoyment, otherwise what you get is more detail that can be initially impressive but does not give long term satisfaction.

 

[dcathro]

ok, so to be fair to Steve, before i commented, i did actually listen to the first part of the video about his viewpoint on sota systems being worth it.

i took away that his perspective is quite naïve, simplistic and dismissive. he completely ignores degrees of room and system development and simply targets system gear price ranges. and never even mentions levels of passion and work needed to really find sota performance.....regardless of price. and that the more capable the gear, the more it takes to get that higher potential delivered.

no doubt his views will appeal to plenty of people, it's the way of the media these days. mention the 1%'rs then take your shots. people say amen. yawn.

i'm sure his video title works great as clickbait.

but for me he has it wrong. not because his question is not valid, but that he just misses the essence of why people pour themselves into any hobby at high levels including hifi. sure; some only want trophy's or are collectors. but many are not that way......not that there is not a little of that for all of us at any level.

and equating expensive gear = rich people is also wrong. i think it's more life style choices and years of investing in their passion, than random rich guys throwing couch change at big dollar baubles. in my experience more well off audiophiles many times have more modest systems and simply don't want to spend big on hifi. it's passion not dollars that drive sota systems.

I think that you are in a different camp to Steve Guttenberg's audience.

What I think you are saying, which I agree with, is that you can't just buy the most expensive, best reviewed gear, stick it in your penthouse and get incredible sound. The equipment is just the starting point, and it is the knowledge/inspiration/perspiration of the user to get that gear to work by optimising the room, the electricity, the supports, interconnections, etc, etc. The better the gear, the higher the potential.

Some of us enjoy the process and the challenge of doing just that and are prepared to spend countless hours in the chase.

However many normal people just want to buy a system, install it in their lounge and listen to music.

 

[microstrip]

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - Rich Guys and Reviewers Running Amok in Hi-Fi

www.soundstagehifi.com

Ran across this article a few weeks ago and thought Schneider summarized things pretty well.

Around 1500 words about the placebo effect, some insinuations about the brands he hates and tells us about his favorite speaker - fortunately we had much better writings about this subject in WBF. Anyway it was nice to see that Soundstage banners promote Crystal Cable and Siltech ...

 

[Gregadd]

I am sorry did Steve actually answer the question?
I think almost all can agree that all systems fall short of replicating real music in real space.
A better title should have been- My Bucket System... it is goo enough for me.

 

[bonzo75]

However many normal people just want to buy a system, install it in their lounge and listen to music.

Those are the non-discerning ones, who just ask the dealer to get their bose, wilson, magico types or whatever the budget fits. That is fine, as long as they don't pretend to know better

 

[bonzo75]

Steve's videos are pure clickbait. I can't get through even 5 minutes of any of his, including the one where he visited the 5 way horn guy and did not play any music.

There are many better talk videos on cricket, bodybuilding, nutrition etc to watch. Y