Are we hurting our ears with clean power?

[microstrip]

You need a calibrated mic to alter the phone app, correct. I would love to be able to make REW work. I would love to throw some pink noise and see what my room is doing. I could have a steep peek that is higher in output than the rest of the music.

We had a REW tutorial in WBF some years ago: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/room-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-1.17765/

I use SpectraPlus most of the time: https://www.spectraplus.com/

 

[Kingrex]

Thanks Micro. Right off tbe bat I was frustrated when I could not find a way to get windows to allow me to reduce the mic gain. I looked at a few online tutorial but my windows acts different. I thought I had found it but its greyed out.

Frustratingly too, windows is trying to update and saying the new update won't work with my CPU and my computer is going to fail. I went on a frantic backup frenzy. My version of windows is only 2 years old. The computer about 5.

 

[Tuckers]

I do not think that super low distortion is needed for listening at low power. One of the systems that I could play at very low power included an Audio Research SP8 , an Electrocompaniet ampilfier and Quad ESL3, the only component of the system I could consider super low distortion.

I think its important to make a distinction between low noise floor (though this is ultimately distortion) and Distortion, which is additive to the signal and interacts with the signal to interfere/correlate with how we perceive instruments, resulting in subjective impressions of glare, hardening, shallowness, and timing/soundstage factors. I can listen all day long to tape noise, vinyl surface noise etc with no impact on my experience, as these are uncorrelated with the musical signal. Having a low noise floor is important to low level listening, but so is hearing the full harmonics and tones without turning it up.

 

[Kingrex]

I would agree that clean, low noise electrinics and media allow one to hear more information at lower levels.

That does not have any bearimg on what we do when it comes to turning it up.

I don't agree with vinyl surface noise as non impactful. I got my new phono pre and was cranking some older classical I like. There was a hum that was annoying me and I at first was pissed at the phono stage. Then I realized it was embedded ground issue hum that was in the recording electronics and is now a permanent part of the record.

I have also very reciently become poignantly aware a low noise piece of electronics has 0 to do with how well it presents in other much more important ways. In my person equipment rack, I have far more noisy equipment I would say create a significantly more realistic recreation of the instruments and performance. Noise is only a slice of the equation.

 

[Blackmorec]

I would agree that clean, low noise electrinics and media allow one to hear more information at lower levels.

That does not have any bearimg on what we do when it comes to turning it up.

I don't agree with vinyl surface noise as non impactful. I got my new phono pre and was cranking some older classical I like. There was a hum that was annoying me and I at first was pissed at the phono stage. Then I realized it was embedded ground issue hum that was in the recording electronics and is now a permanent part of the record.

I have also very reciently become poignantly aware a low noise piece of electronics has 0 to do with how well it presents in other much more important ways. In my person equipment rack, I have far more noisy equipment I would say create a significantly more realistic recreation of the instruments and performance. Noise is only a slice of the equation.

Hi Kingrex,
I would point a few depedencies……the type of noise, how much of it there is and where it is.
A noisy circuit is only bothersome if that noise has a detrimental effect that affects the quality of the final music awareness produced by the brain. Noise in the wrong place can have a fairly devastating effect, depending on the above criterea. Take simple old groove noise, harmless in small quantities, devastating in larger amounts.

 

[ACHiPo]

I fiddled with the setup and took more measurements.
With my phone db app, at normal listening volumes with either the 845 or the Dartzeel, my peek volume at my chair, about 7 feet from speaker hit 76 db.

On average, the high points of music were between 55 db and 65 db.

My ampacity meter set to .000 measured peak ampacity from a speaker cable as .12 amps on the woofer and .067 on the mid/horn. I am not breaking 1/5 of a watt total at my prefered listening level.

I moved my speakers. This had a large affect. The amps are so different in totality, a speaker adjustment was necessary. This brought a much better balance to the sound. More even and less beaming.

I changed a driver tube. Also a pleasant change. A tad more smooth with less glass sound.
The 845 is an Elrog.

I analyzed source more closely what am I feeding as a signal.

I don't want to start a pissing match, but here are some impressions.

The source is critical. My digital on a whole is more lean than my vinyl. I can play the vinyl a lot longer than the digital.

Either source I am highly aware the quality of the recording with the 845. If its not excellent, it's annoying.

Here is the fighting words. The 845 is head and shoulders, way past the Dartzeel when it comes to instruments being real and believable. I am gobsmacked and shocked at what I hear. So much so, I could only handle the Dartzeel for 15 minutes or so and I wanted it out of my system.

Yet the persistent (something) continues to exist with the 845. I was sitting last night with the music very low. About 45 db. Maybe a 50 db peak. I had a wav digital file on my harddrive of a decent recoding I like in the background. After about 10 minutes the sound was agitating me and I had to get up and click my preamp 3 notch down. I think that is 2.25db. WTF.

I honestly don't know if its distortion or something else. I don't know why this would happen, but maybe the timing is smeared. While very clear with amazing decay, I almost struggle a little to decider what I hear. And frequency peaks. I was shocked how much speaker placement influenced the sound. I have read serious pissing match here that an amp when reviewed should never be accompanied by speaker repositioning. Well, I'm her to tell you, these 2 amps like the speakers in different locations.

My next task would be to try a Umik 1 mic and measure the frequency response. I may have some steep peaks in the top end. The playback strikes me as hard, a little glassy, very dynamic. Probably tilted up in frequency response.

My thread was around how loud I can play with the Dartzeel. My prefered db is about 55 to 65 db average with peaks to 76 db. When I had guests over or get worked into a mood, I am pushing the Dartzeel to peaks I assume in the 80s. I didn't try this yraterday, but I have played plenty about 5 clicks higher on my preamp which are 3/4 db per click. So 3.75 db higher.

I’ve checked SPLs at concerts. Just the background level with people quietly talking before the show hits 85-90 dB. Acoustic taiko drums hit 117 dB. Home stereo sounds MUCH louder at 85 dB.

 

[PYP]

I’ve checked SPLs at concerts. Just the background level with people quietly talking before the show hits 85-90 dB. Acoustic taiko drums hit 117 dB.

And do you were protection for your hearing?

 

[Kingrex]

I’ve checked SPLs at concerts. Just the background level with people quietly talking before the show hits 85-90 dB. Acoustic taiko drums hit 117 dB. Home stereo sounds MUCH louder at 85 dB.

I always have earplugs at concerts. I don't seem to need them at the symphony.

 

[Audire]

I see clean power as less harmful than unclean power …. Played at respectful levels, clean power is all we need for healthy listening…

 

[Kingrex]

We had a REW tutorial in WBF some years ago: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/room-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-1.17765/

I use SpectraPlus most of the time: https://www.spectraplus.com/

Can you use Spectra as a digital room correction. Like a piece of hardware between your server and DAC to correct for room distortion

 

[ACHiPo]

And do you were protection for your hearing?

Generally yes

 

[microstrip]

Can you use Spectra as a digital room correction. Like a piece of hardware between your server and DAC to correct for room distortion

No, SpectraPlus is only a powerful analyzer.

 

[Al M.]

I got my Reed today, which comes calibrated. Turns out the BAFX meters that I used give readings 2-4 dBa too high. While I worked with readings that were a bit on the high side, the good news for my ears is that my sound pressure exposure had been less than I had thought.

Thanks again, Ron, for the recommendation!

 

[Kingrex]

I was looking at the Reed sound level meter. I don't see where it says its calibrated.

That lead me to a Reed Sound Level Calibrator. Basically a tool that puts out a 94DB acoustic signal.
It makes me toy with the idea of getting the calibrator, then sending it to those who might want to use it for say $30 plus shipping. Then you can calibrate your mic, phone etc. Wear earplugs.

 

[Al M.]

I was looking at the Reed sound level meter. I don't see where it says its calibrated.

The manual that comes with it says it's factory calibrated. Long-term I will certainly want to buy a Reed calibrator as well.

 

[Al M.]

Manual:

https://www.reedinstruments.com/pdfs/cache/www.reedinstruments.com/r8050-kit/manual/r8050-kit-manual.pdf

From the manual:

Product Quality
This product has been manufactured in an ISO 9001 facility and has been calibrated during the manufacturing process to meet stated product specifications. If a certificate of calibration is required please contact the nearest authorized REED distributor or authorized Service Center. Please note an additional fee for this service will apply.

 

[microstrip]

Manual:

https://www.reedinstruments.com/pdfs/cache/www.reedinstruments.com/r8050-kit/manual/r8050-kit-manual.pdf

From the manual:

Product Quality
This product has been manufactured in an ISO 9001 facility and has been calibrated during the manufacturing process to meet stated product specifications. If a certificate of calibration is required please contact the nearest authorized REED distributor or authorized Service Center. Please note an additional fee for this service will apply.

As far as I can see it only has fast and slow modes, not real peak mode. It is an integrating meter optimized for noise and average sound level measurements. Nice to have an idea of sound levels, but inadequate for many audiophile measurement purposes.

 

[gleeds]

I posted this article "Distorted Distortion" elsewhere recently but it seems very germane to the broader topic at hand. Have a read.

Distortion distortion

6moons.com

My own experience is that a high noise floor on the power line most definately contributes to listening fatigue. As a natural course, turning up the volume, turns up the distortion. Kingrex and Ed Davito of Ultra Audio are certainly significant authorities on this topic.

 

[Al M.]

I posted this article "Distorted Distortion" elsewhere recently but it seems very germane to the broader topic at hand. Have a read.

Distortion distortion

6moons.com

My own experience is that a high noise floor on the power line most definately contributes to listening fatigue. As a natural course, turning up the volume, turns up the distortion. Kingrex and Ed Davito of Ultra Audio are certainly significant authorities on this topic.

Since I fixed my power situation with better in-wall wiring, a Furutech 6-way power distributor and ZenWave Audio power cables, distortion and fatigue have dramatically gone down.

 

[PYP]

The relationship between audio equipment and hearing damage is complex, and there is ongoing research in this
To minimize the risk of hearing damage, it's essential to be mindful of the volume you're exposing your ears to, and to follow guidelines such as the 60/60 rule, which suggests limiting your exposure to 60 minutes of loud noise at a time and taking a break for 60 minutes afterward. Additionally, it may be a good idea to invest in good-quality headphones that block out external noise and prevent you from increasing the volume to dangerous levels.

Ultimately, the best way to protect your hearing is to be aware of the levels of noise you're exposed to, take breaks from loud noises, and use protective gear when necessary.

interesting. But are there guidelines for how loud that noise (or music) should be during the 60 minutes?