Audiophile power cords vs. the cables in your walls

[myself]

Al, do you mean breaker box? Or do you really still have fuses?

Both the breaker box and all the fuses of each audio equipment!
when I upgraded the inwall PC, I used the Siemens of which the audio engineer considered a decent one but he advised me that I should upgrade the breaker box an audiophile version which would cost us$300 .

 

[myself]

Just a quick note to summarise the post in-wall PC installation effect( it took at lease 200 hours to fully run in) on my system:

1 it feels as if the power amp had 25% more power. And I had to turn down the volume for 1 or 2 steps for the same sound level.
2 some deep bass that I had never heard in my system have come out.
3 improvement of sound stage with better width and depth
4 the human voices are better
5 better separations of between musical instruments in the classical instruments
6 clearly theres a significant improvement in sound quality

if I were bill gate, I probably would use Odin Gold to install 5 in-wall cables: one for power amp, one for pre amp, one for LP, one for digital and one for TV and AV!

 

[Bruce B]

if I were bill gate, I probably would use Odin Gold to install 5 in-wall cables: one for power amp, one for pre amp, one for LP, one for digital and one for TV and AV!

I'm not Bill Gates, but I was able to run 6 in-wall cables to each set of outlets.

 

[Rensselaer]

Al, I'm not here to defend Gabriel, he's fully qualified to do that himself. But your declarative statement that his claim makes no sense along with your follow on sentences do nothing to make a contrary case. I'm confident you are capable of that. Your argument is with CG.

Here is an excerpt from one of his many papers on the Shunyata site.

Power Cord Misconceptions

MISCONCEPTION #1: AC power is like water coming from a large power tank, flowing through several 10s of feet of power hose into a component. This implies that the component is at the end of this system.

Answer: Actually, the component sits between two power conductors: the hot and the neutral. AC power oscillates (alternates) back and forth at a 50-60hz rate. So power does not pour into the component at all. The component’s power supply is within a complex network of wires and connectors. Due to their obvious proximity, ALL of the wire and connectors can and do affect the performance of the component’power supply.


MISCONCEPTION #3: There is up to a hundred feet of wire in the walls, so the last 6 feet of power cord can’t possibly make any difference.

Answer: The PC is NOT the last 6 feet as stated in #1 and the local current and EM effects directly affect the sonic performance of the component. The power cord is not the last 6 feet, it is the first 6 feet from the perspective of the component. The further a noise source is from a component, the less of an impact it will have on the components power supply. The high-frequency noise sources that have the greatest impact on audio and video performance are the system components themselves — which are usually all in close proximity of one another and all emit radiated fields of high-frequency noise. A well designed power cord can act as a noise-isolated extension of the primary winding of a component’s power supply and will help isolate the power supply from the fields of radiated RF and EM noise energy that is ever present in all electronics systems.

https://shunyata.com/2016/06/27/power-cord-misconceptions/

Before I realised/learnt that Alternating Current, AC, means that electrons do not flow from power plant to my devices, but instead move forward and backwards a few CM only, I used to think along the lines of Misconception no. 1.

When I moved from USA to UK nearly all of my electric devices were 110volt, 60 cycle (UK 240 volt, 50 cycle). My first attempt to set up my listening room in the UK was to use a commercial power supply which converts 240 volt, 50 cycle to 110 volt, 60 cycle (I got it from a friend in Kuwait, it was used by the CIA to power their "Voice of America" broadcasts to Iraq up to and during the Gulf War). The device worked, but the cooling fan drowned out my music even if placed in another room.

Then we extended the house so I had the electrician mount to the wall under the circuit breaker board a 240 volt to 110 volt transformer. He also dedicated one of the circuit breakers, installed the wire and the Hubbel Hospital Grade sockets in my dedicated listening room. I didn't notice any difference in sound from when the equipment was initially set up in Oregon (before I went to the Middle East).

My wife was also worried about the transformer as it always hummed and felt quite warm to the touch.

In the end I replaced (sold off) all my 110 volt stuff and got 240 volt gear. Because I have photovoltaic cells and massive inverter above my listening room (roof and attic respectively) I plug everything into a Kemp power block (filters and stuff) with whatever cables came with the electronics, then the Kemp power supply plugged into just a normal wall socket. And, here in the UK, every plug has a fuse, so each item has two fuses between it and the power, one in its own plug and another in Kemp power block plug. Some would argue it would sound better without the fuses, but I would rather a fuse blow than any of my equipment.

Sounds great. I personally no longer worry about whether I spent enough (some argue should be 1/3 of each components price) on the power cords, been there, done that. I am certain that many of you out there, some being engineers, will write and tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, and my experiences associated with this is all wrong. Hey ho. If there was but one way to look at this, there wouldn't be this forum.

 

[Rensselaer]

And just to drive the point home, look at this. A $5450 retail power cord connected to my motor controller. Crazy, huh? Common sense says it shouldn’t make a difference. But it does.
View attachment 60879

I don't know, but I would bet anyone would say they hear a difference after spending $5450 on an upgrade, whether anyone else could hear it or not. Any way of objectively measuring that difference?

 

[Al M.]

Dave,

Just try the damn PC my friend. Yes it's hype. Nothing unusual about that. Common industry practice. Sounds like may be reluctant (afraid?) to take Dave C. up on his very generous offer. I, for one, am very interested in your comments. You have nothing to lose except a few hours of your time. Be well.

Gordon

I did take up DaveC on his generous offer to try the cable for free. It is sensational in my system. I have ordered five of these Clear Bass power cables (2 meters each) for my system.

 

[Kingsrule]

I did take up DaveC on his generous offer to try the cable for free. It is sensational in my system. I have ordered five of these Clear Bass power cables (2 meters each) for my system.

U baled on your TrippLite PC's?

 

[Kingrex]

A few thoughts.
The way Peter is powering his system is far better than any power cord/receptacle combination I have seen. Its unfortunate its not NEC approved. Not in a home. But either are the Hubbell or audiophile receptacles that are not tamper resistant. And all CB need to be AFCI. I have to specify all my jobs as such. I may have a private conversation to explain the differences and risk. But the code is the code.

I have a theory on power cables. They are not the first or last point in a system, but they are an important portion. And I use the word portion for a reason. A power cord is really a jumper. It's a flexible strap with a disconnect point on both ends. This makes it unique in the power foundation of our systems. A power cord is only held in place by jaws and tension. It is not held in place with a screw and clamp. It is 2 x inferior points of contact. The whole of the power cord has a lot of points of contact. These contact points are composed of a variety of, generally, dissimilar metals and sometimes solder. Very rarely are the connection points welded. To me a power cord is the weak link in the chain.

In my mind, if the infrastructure “is not” set up for audio, the power cord becomes a more significant point of compounded weak links in the chain. Why? Well In My Opinion, the deficit the power cord brings has to be an absolute minimum to not exacerbate the problem. It needs to have the least impact on the whole.

If the infrastructure “is” set up for audio, the cord is now a weak link in a solid chain. The game of points theory. Its overall impact is less significant as it is not amplifying an already poor setup. It is only mildly hindering a good setup. Therefore, a power cord has been shown to have less of a heard impact in a location where the surrounding infrastructure is solid.

In my opinion a power cord is an unfortunate requirement by the NEC. A power cord is a hindrance to high performance audio. The reason in my mind it voices so strongly is because a cord is a mesh of dissimilar metals joined together with inferior contact points. It’s a perfect storm for distorted and damaged performance potential. Being that there is potential for distortion and damage means extreme attention to detail must be taken to ensure as little damage is done as possible.

Why do I say damage? It goes back to a basic underlying principle I feel is hyper important when it comes to building out the whole of the electrical infrastructure. Dissimilar metal contact. Think about how many dissimilar metals and contact points are at play in the average power cord connections chain.
Starting from the very beginning of the chain.

• Copper wire in a wall
• Copper wire is attached to a receptacle by a variety of means. The receptacle contact point may or may not be a positive contact. At worst it is a wago style grip achieved by stripping a ½” of jacket off a wire and stuffing the wire in a small hole with a tab of metal that captures the conductor. At best it is a brass clamp or binding screw. And did the electrician wrap the wire around the screw.
• Also, the receptacle contact point is not copper. It's a dissimilar metal from the wire in the wall. At best it is brass. Many times the brass is coated with a metal such as tin, nickel, silver, rhodium, or other esoteric metals.
• The internal structure of a receptacle varies in quality too. What is the density and quality of the interior metal leading to the cord grip clamps? How are the cord grip clamps designed? Size, strength, material.
• What is the density and rigidity of the receptacle housing body? What materials is it made from?
• I'm not far into this and already a lot is going on. And I am only now getting to the cord itself.
• The cord has a male body with male blades. What are they made of?
• Are the blades coated with a metal
• How heavy a gauge are they
• Inside the cord cap body, how thick is the metal
• How robust is the internal wire clamp device
• What is the wire clamp device made of
• How is the contact made to the cord wire. Clamp only, solder, welding
• Then there is the cord body housing. What is it made of? How dense and durable. Is it shielded or not? Are the wire/clamp connections exposed to air and oxidation over time?
• More importantly, the blades on the cord have to make contact with the clamps in the receptacle. What are the metal to metal interfaces going on here. Do these metals create electrolysis between them, or is it an inert contact. If any electrolysis is occurring, and there always is some with dissimilar metal, that is micro arcing. Micro arcing lays carbon deposits down between the two materials that exacerbates the arch creating a larger and more robust arch. Under high loads this may propagate to the point of a multi thousand degree arch which melts the receptacle and cord end resulting in an eventual break in contact or a fire that may ignite the surrounding building structure if the box containing the failure is not sufficient to contain the heat. And hence, we now have a requirement to utilize an Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter. (AFCI). These CB sense the harmonic signature of an arch event and will open the CB when an arc is detected on the line.
• Again, a lot has gone on and we are only in the male end of the cord.
• So now we are at the cord conductor itself. Where to begin. Lets just say the actual conductor, geometry, coatings, insulation, casing, damping, shielding etc are far too varied to mention all. I will just leave it at, manufacturers pride themselves on their secret sauce when it comes to how they assemble the wire.
• Now we are onto the female body and blades of the cord. The exact same interface and connections occur in the female body as the male body. And there is nothing to say the manufacturer didn’t mix up the brew by using unplated contacts at the male and plated at the female. Or vice versa. Or other metals such as a variation in brass content, or housing material.
• Some manufacturers are adding filters at either or both ends of the cord housing.
• And finally there is the IEC inlet to the equipment.
• Again there is a metal, a coating on the metal, a casing, a contact to the internal wiring in the equipment using clamps, solder or a mix of both.
• And once again, the female end of the cord has to clamp onto the IEC inlet blades.
• What are the metals? Are they compatible or are they producing electrolysis?
• How positive is the contact interface? What is the surface area? How much pressure is applied. Is any vibration mitigation applied? You are now connected to a device that generally has one or more transformers that create vibration throughout the entire chassis making it harder for the cord contact to remain intact.

In synopsis:
With a cord there are roughly 6 points of contact where only pressure is applied to make contact between devices. Really 18 as it occurs on all 3 wires. In wall wire to receptacle, receptacle clamp to cord blade, cord blade to cord conductor, cord conductor to cord blade, cord blade to IEC inlet blade, IEC inlet blade to internal wire. There are at least as many instances where dissimilar metals are in contact with each other. Plating add even more dissimilar metal as it not only interacts with the electrons at the contact point, it is reacting with the electrons along the whole of the material the coating is applied to.

 

[Al M.]

U baled on your TrippLite PC's?

Seems like it .

Last week I got a new CD set, Haydn Paris Symphonies (#82 - #87) with Neville Mariner and Academy of St Martin in the Fields. With the Clear Bass cable on the power amp, which was in the system when I first listened to the CD set, I heard orchestral massed string tone in my system as never before (well, this is chamber orchestra, but regardless).

Incredible nuance and detail, with timbre that was believable to a degree that I did not expect. Putting back the stock power cable confirmed the contribution of the Clear Bass cable to the string tone. With the stock cable the sound is also more mechanical, with less organic flow and, compared to the Clear Bass cable, more monochromatic. Also, there is more distortion. There is just no way for me to go back to the stock cable.

Dave also sent me a PL-11 power cable to try. It is yet better than the Clear Bass cable, and may be a worthwhile investment for people looking for even more optimization, but the main leap from the stock power cable is made by the much less costly Clear Bass cable (it's only $ 375 for a 2 meter cable).

The data point from the sound with that cable on just the power amp was sufficient for me to decide on five 2 meter Clear Bass cables for the system, but putting the PL-11 power cable on the preamp confirmed that the power cable effect is cumulative. With both power cables on the amplification, the upper and mid bass also became more robust and precise, very welcome on rock. I am quite amazed what drum sound can come out of those two-way monitors (with subwoofer support, but the main sound also on this comes from the monitors).

I look forward to what five high quality power cables can do in my system. I ordered them for:

CD Transport
Reclocker power supply
DAC
Preamp
Power amp

This week I'll get another long Clear Bass cable to try, so I can test on my two subwoofers. If it makes a difference there as well, I will expand my order.

I should note that a thick (7 AWG) Pangea power cord ($80 on Amazon a few years ago) on my power amp does not really make a difference to the Tripp Lite 14 AWG stock cable for $ 8.99.

The Clear Bass cable has 9 AWG wires (plenty thick; my refurbished in-wall wiring is the smaller 10 AWG gauge, still quite a leap toward greater thickness from standard 12 AWG).

 

[knghifi]

I did take up DaveC on his generous offer to try the cable for free. It is sensational in my system. I have ordered five of these Clear Bass power cables (2 meters each) for my system.

DaveC a good guy!

 

[Kingrex]

Seems like it .

Last week I got a new CD set, Haydn Paris Symphonies (#82 - #87) with Neville Mariner and Academy of St Martin in the Fields. With the Clear Bass cable on the power amp, which was in the system when I first listened to the CD set, I heard orchestral massed string tone in my system as never before (well, this is chamber orchestra, but regardless).

Incredible nuance and detail, with timbre that was believable to a degree that I did not expect. Putting back the stock power cable confirmed the contribution of the Clear Bass cable to the string tone. With the stock cable the sound is also more mechanical, with less organic flow and, compared to the Clear Bass cable, more monochromatic. Also, there is more distortion. There is just no way for me to go back to the stock cable.

Dave also sent me a PL-11 power cable to try. It is yet better than the Clear Bass cable, and may be a worthwhile investment for people looking for even more optimization, but the main leap from the stock power cable is made by the much less costly Clear Bass cable (it's only $ 375 for a 2 meter cable).

The data point from the sound with that cable on just the power amp was sufficient for me to decide on five 2 meter Clear Bass cables for the system, but putting the PL-11 power cable on the preamp confirmed that the power cable effect is cumulative. With both power cables on the amplification, the upper and mid bass also became more robust and precise, very welcome on rock. I am quite amazed what drum sound can come out of those two-way monitors (with subwoofer support, but the main sound also on this comes from the monitors).

I look forward to what five high quality power cables can do in my system. I ordered them for:

CD Transport
Reclocker power supply
DAC
Preamp
Power amp

This week I'll get another long Clear Bass cable to try, so I can test on my two subwoofers. If it makes a difference there as well, I will expand my order.

I should note that a thick (7 AWG) Pangea power cord ($80 on Amazon a few years ago) on my power amp does not really make a difference to the Tripp Lite 14 AWG stock cable for $ 8.99.

The Clear Bass cable has 9 AWG wires (plenty thick; my refurbished in-wall wiring is the smaller 10 AWG gauge, still quite a leap toward greater thickness from standard 12 AWG).

Its great there are reasonable cables for reasonable prices. There should be. I may look at some too. Most of my gear is wired like Peters. Hardwire to the wall. But I have some equipment I power out of a power strip. And I have a new integrated power panel I build coming soon. It has receptacle built into it. I will need cords to test it out.

 

[Al M.]

An update on my ZenWave power cable order (see post #169): I decided to order a PL-11 power cord instead of the Clear Bass cable for the power amp (FI-50 NCF plug). While for the most part they "sound" identical, the PL-11 on the power amp sounds calmer, at the same level of vividness and dynamics. To me it's a subtle but important difference. Also, the PL-11 sounds slightly more "organized" when the complexity increases.

I also found that the Clear Bass cable does help on the subwoofers, as advertised (that's where it got its name from). The bass is a bit cleaner and tighter. So I ordered two 3 meter Clear Bass cables for my subwoofers as well, for a total of seven ZenWave Audio power cables for my system.

Currently I have two Clear Bass demo cables on loan. One of them had already been on my preamp. Since the PL-11 cord frees up the second Clear Bass cable from duties on the power amp, I decided to put that Clear Bass cable on the DAC.

This yields yet other important improvements. While orchestral string texture had already become so much better with power cords on preamp/amp, there still had been problem passages, like the onset of high registered violins a minute or two after the beginning of the Scottish Symphony by Mendelssohn by woodwinds, on a recent DGG recording:

https://www.amazon.com/Mendelssohn-Symphonies-1-5-3-CD/dp/B06Y2NR6KW/

It always had sounded a bit synthetic, and prior to the power cord on the DAC still had kept sounding a bit like synthesizer rather than real violins, but now the timbre, with a subtle change, has crossed over into believability. It's still not perfect, but it sounds more like violins than like synthesized sound. As they say, blame the system, not the recording.

Also the tone of solo violin, next to other timbres, benefits from the Clear Bass cable on the DAC.

The sound with the Clear Bass on the DAC overall is yet cleaner, less hard, and more effortless. The three ZenWave power cables combined also allow for better articulation and pitch definition in the bass.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Congratulations, Al! I'm happy for you that these power cables improved your system!

Congratulations, also, to Dave Cahoon!

 

[bazelio]

@Al M. I've also had the PL-11 in for demo. And I too found it to be a good cable. Fairly good bang for the buck in this crazy hobby as well. I have recommended it to a few friends who were looking to take a step beyond Tripp Lite computer cords, and they later thanked me for it.

 

[Rensselaer]

Here in the UK all power plugs must contain a 13A fuse. Many feel that a fuse degrades sound quality (there are “audiophile” fuses available). To remedy this they prescribe buying a power strip/block having American or European Schuko sockets, then power cords with fuseless American or Schuko plugs from the power strip to equipment. The power strip is still plugged into a wall socket with a British standard plug containing a 13A fuse, therefore all the power to each device still arrives through a fuse.

If it is still an improvement as the final meter of PC is without a fuse, then wouldn’t longer PC’s with British plugs (and audiophile fuses) each plugged into a separate Furutech wall sockets be the same (and save on the power block and separate cord)?

 

[Atmasphere]

To remedy this they prescribe buying a power strip/block having American or European Schuko sockets, then power cords with fuseless American or Schuko plugs from the power strip to equipment. The power strip is still plugged into a wall socket with a British standard plug containing a 13A fuse, therefore all the power to each device still arrives through a fuse.

This does not make sense to me. If using seperate power cords, each with its own 13A fuse you'll get less voltage drop- hence less degradation on that account.

 

[Rensselaer]

This does not make sense to me. If using seperate power cords, each with its own 13A fuse you'll get less voltage drop- hence less degradation on that account.

Thank you! What about ”audiophile” fuses? Do they negate much of the supposed problem with fuses (Fuses are required in UK power plugs)? Any risk of ground loops when each device has separate plug?

 

[Atmasphere]

Thank you! What about ”audiophile” fuses? Do they negate much of the supposed problem with fuses (Fuses are required in UK power plugs)?

Not in my experience, unless you are running a lot of current through it! Fuses work by heating up until they melt. When they are hot, they have a voltage drop. The voltage drop is the sole reason a fuse might make a difference.

 

[wil]

Not in my experience, unless you are running a lot of current through it! Fuses work by heating up until they melt. When they are hot, they have a voltage drop. The voltage drop is the sole reason a fuse might make a difference.

So, from your experience, you don’t see a fuse as a weak link (in terms of sound quality in the electrical circuit) until it’s heating up and about to blow?

 

[Rensselaer]

So, from your experience, you don’t see a fuse as a weak link (in terms of sound quality in the electrical circuit) until it’s heating up and about to blow?

Wil: is a set up, all equipment sans fuse routed into a single power strip to single plug with fuse, better than each piece of equipment having own fused plug into socket of dedicated circuit? Any experience with “audiophile” fuses?