Best turntable under 50k?
- Thread starter Frankie67
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Neither of them. All were photographed at a listening session over the weekend, all same room
People must stop believing that more money will buy you a better turntable, there is a very random correlation between price and performance In fact I have measured the speed performance 0f 50 000 usd TT that are worse than a TT at 500 usd. Must high end boutique turntables cannot hold speed any better then a cheap one. so check before buying. I you want to spend 50k on a TT a ShaknSpin fir 200USDv is a good thing to buy first , then you can see if the most basic TT parameter is in order, most of the time todays TT are not very good compared to vintage TT
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That may be true in general. Turntable and sound quality do improve as you go up the line of Micro Seiki and SME for instance and used prices reflect that. And the differences between the turntables in those two lines do not have a lot to do with speed accuracy, and consistency. I think it also depends on typology. High mass belt drive turntables, for instance, price does go up with sound quality improvements.
There are many elements to good turntable design and performance. Speed accuracy and stability is only one of them. It comes down to how much speed variation is audible and how important it is relative to all the other factors that influence the sound of a turntable. Most of it has to do with resonance control and not corrupting the sound that a cartridge and tone arm extract from the grooves. The degree to which the turntable can deal with the influence from the motor on the sound is very importance and whether or not the effect of the controller is audible.
How immune the turntable is from the environment in which it is operating is also important. I have done some direct comparisons of various turntable designs in my system and room. Once speed is decent, other factors were more audible.
Although speed stability is important, it is not what sets turntables apart once speed stability is above some threshold.
What sets turntables apart is the quality of their information extraction: How well the table’s business components (platter, arm) are isolated from the environment. How well they are coupled for the precision of their interaction.
I believe that beyond a certain price point (well below $50K) the performance gains from the turntable fall off pretty fast. The tonearm/cartridge combo (assuming they are a good match) will give more bang for the buck as the price increases.
I think it depends on one’s target and expectations and willingness and ability to pursue it. Gains diminish, but if selected carefully, they can still be pretty significant, but they are expensive with turntables.
I happen to have a very expensive turntable, but very inexpensive cartridge and tone arm.
Ivor Tiefenbrun believed that the table was first priority. Next the arm. Last the cartridge. If the table doesn’t give you the necessary precision of foundation, you can’t make it more precise with a fancier arm or cartridge.
Same kind of argument for arm being more important than cartridge. The arm is the platform that controls the cartridge position relative to the table. If it’s not precise, you can’t gain precision with the cartridge. Of course arm and cartridge interact, making arm and cartridge choice a problem in synergy.
Same kind of argument for arm being more important than cartridge. The arm is the platform that controls the cartridge position relative to the table. If it’s not precise, you can’t gain precision with the cartridge. Of course arm and cartridge interact, making arm and cartridge choice a problem in synergy.
FWIW, if you have a good table and arm, the difference between one cartridge and another can be stunning in comparisons. But if you don’t compare one to another, many cartridges can present a musically pleasing result. It may be an example of “you don’t know what you’re missing,” but if you really don’t know, and you don’t suffer from FOMO, why would you care?
I agree totally with the last half dozen or so replies on this subject. I think this thread goes back two years so if I’m rehashing what has already been posted my apologies. TTs are so complex with arms, carts, platforms for the table, phono stages, connecting wires, not to mention set-up that it takes great patience to ferret out what takes you closest to ideal performance. It is painstaking to do the work and spend the money to find that out. Just spending $50k on a new table is likely not the answer. It probably lies in the nitty gritty of everything else.
He was in the business of selling overpriced* turntables , that may have something to do with his statements.
The cartridge is what dominates the sound, it is kind of obvious both when listening and by measurement…and by reasoning..
* considering present Linn prices which are absurd.
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Yes, Julian Hirsch agreed with you. Cartridge and speakers were recommended to use up on the order of 60+% of your system budget.
Ivor was not in the business of selling overpriced turntables. He was on a quest to highlight how much the bearing and suspension affected the sound. He drove his demo unit from dealer to dealer in the “boot” of his car.
Present Linn pricing reflects world class precision design and manufacturing, and it’s done in Glasgow, not Asia.
If you believe speed control is the key to good vinyl playback, you have a lot of inexpensive choices to scratch your itch. Life is good. Cheap, and good.
Edit: I note from your “about” info that you will be 125 years old on January 1st. Congratulations!
I would love to hear about how Edison’s wax cylinders compared to the vinyl of 1962, and, of course to today’s hi res streaming.
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If we focus on the turntable and keep the arm and cartridge out of the equation, what is the purpose?
1. Stable and correct speed
2.No eccentricity of platter/bearing
2. Isolation and minimum rumble and vibration added.
4.Minimum microphony/feedback.
TT can fail on all, which one is most audible?
1. Stable and correct speed
2.No eccentricity of platter/bearing
2. Isolation and minimum rumble and vibration added.
4.Minimum microphony/feedback.
TT can fail on all, which one is most audible?
Perhaps the measurable gains related to speed, accuracy and consistency, but there is a lot that is difficult to measure, and the audible gains continue to rise with the better designs.
We could all hear differences when we switch arms, and cartridges, so it is tempting to say they have the most influence. However, I have done a quite few direct turntable comparisons in my system and discovered very audible and meaningful differences between turntables. The turntable is the foundation on which the tone arm and cartridge operate. The better the turntable, the more you hear the potential of the arm and cartridge.
If the minimum is breached, you'll sure hear 4. as a howl.
That's why my TT is in another room from the system properly suspended/isolated and Michael Fidler MC pro phono preamp nearby driving balanced lines into the listening room control preamp; or a Waxwing that I'm just getting to..
I'd say get 4. correct and then you can mess with 1-3?
Nice succinct writeup @Belle Chorin as expected.
Hard to disagree with your comments Peter. Part of the issue with these sorts of debates is the inherent subjectivity of the value proposition. One man’s “not subtle” is another man’s “meh”. And that’s okay. When there’s no budget involved these are moot points, but most of us work within a budget. With that in mind, I stand by my opinion.
This seems very similar to someone stating "Cables do not make a difference".
Sure, you can spend money foolishly, but all expensive turntables are not automatically a waste of money. A few of them may even be worthwhile.
Sure, you can spend money foolishly, but all expensive turntables are not automatically a waste of money. A few of them may even be worthwhile.
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