Best turntable under 50k?
- Thread starter Frankie67
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You need to read the thread that started in 2020 and is 39 pages. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/dava-fc-a1-a-field-coil-contender.30720/
There are 130 owners already and it has been sold out for a year, in Oct 2022 he stopped taking orders till May 2023, and also discontinued the basic model.
The TD 124 with DaVa basic was better than the Continuum caliburn with the etsuro gold at Vess. the TD 124 usually has less resolution than most modern hign end tables but here it had higher, bigger stage, more nuance and musicality thanks to the cart. My report on Mike's system is here https://zero-distortion.org/mega-analog-shootout/
He now has a phono coming out which has no resistors or caps. Only inductor transformers, MM only.
Miyajima Zero is nice but their own Infinity goes further.
I hope you get a chance to try a Tedeska Mono someday; preferably one built with his modern styli* and his silver winding. These are pretty great.
( * good for all but the oldest mono )
For me mono is only old, which were recorded in mono. Not monos from the stereo era.
OK. There are lots of recordings recorded originally in mono, and pressed in mono, that took place in what is considered a 'later mono' period.
Some of them later released as stereo ( almost always lousy by comparison ). A lot of jazz, I know that's not your thing as much.
Anyways my comment, passed on from Tedeska, referred not to groove size but rather vinyl composition, which is a bit harder to peg to an exact time, and only pertains to their somewhat exclusive offering of an optimized modern profile on a 'no vertical compliance' mono design ...
Some of them later released as stereo ( almost always lousy by comparison ). A lot of jazz, I know that's not your thing as much.
Anyways my comment, passed on from Tedeska, referred not to groove size but rather vinyl composition, which is a bit harder to peg to an exact time, and only pertains to their somewhat exclusive offering of an optimized modern profile on a 'no vertical compliance' mono design ...
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Ok, I thought you were referring to the modern fake monos as Miyajima clearly has a different stylus size for those.
As for jazz, I like Bop - Art Blakey, Hank Mobley, etc, just that I don't use it that much for evaluation.
All old jazz mono videos
And I would love for G to gift me these two jazz monos
https://youtu.be/G_fK8ao8X7o
As for jazz, I like Bop - Art Blakey, Hank Mobley, etc, just that I don't use it that much for evaluation.
All old jazz mono videos
And I would love for G to gift me these two jazz monos
https://youtu.be/G_fK8ao8X7o
My Audio Guru says oh no oh no to the Eminent EX. "You have the correct cartridge from MSL". I have only heard the Platinum Sig. Others praise the Eminent EX. It is Stereophiles' Herb Reicherts' favorite cartridge that he judges all others against. My personal opinion is MSL only makes excellent cartridges. My first demo of my turntable was with the platinum so I said okay, that works. I am so not shopping for a replacement. You might be fine right where you are at. I wish I knew the sound your cartridge!
Hi 'aangen',
That is interesting what you mention here about the Eminent Ex from your Audio Guru.
Likewise I would love to hear how the MSL Platinum sounds too.
Would be great to do a direct A to B comparison of the Eminent Ex, Gold Sig. and Platinum Sig.
I still have quite a shopping list for items I want to buy for my analogue set-up including upgrading my Eminent Ex sometime in the future and am a bit stuck with reasoning (scratching my head) which are the best to buy first items to get most upgrade in sound vs money outlay (if any of these items do actually upgrade the sound I am hearing with my current analogue set-up) i.e. (in order of money outlay) ;
1) Buy a Kuzma Ebony Record Spindle Weight (instead of using the original Kuzma XL DC screw down brass weight - which I don't have any problems with, on the basis that from reading online reviews from professional Reviewers and WBE Owners that the Ebony is superior to the original brass screw down clamp resulting in better sound quality.
Side Info for 1); At the moment I am using with great effect different thicknesses of neoprene Penny Washers (from 0.5mm up to 2mm thicknesses depending on record thickness and degree of warp) that I bought on Amazon at a crazy low price underneath the record which helps flatten the records with the original brass screw down clamp. These Penny Washers have an 8mm internal hole diameter for the spindle and 30mm outer diameter.
2) Buy a Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp for my XL DC (to help flatten the outer edges of some of my slightly warped records, although I can now flatten my records with the neoprene Penny Washers as described in 1) above)
3) Buy a used 4Point 14" to replace my 11" (on the basis from reading online reviews from professional Reviewers and WBE Owners that the 14" is better and an upgrade to the 11")
4) Upgrade my MSL Eminent Ex to say a MSL Gold Sig. or MSL Platinum Sig. (on the basis that I am assuming that upgrading to a more expensive cartridge will be an upgrade in the sound I am hearing)
5) Buy a used CH X1 for my CH P1 (on the basis from reading online reviews from professional Reviewers and WBE Owners that connecting an X1 to the P1 improves the sound and performance of the P1)
Problem is, I will have to buy all of these new and second hand items blind (as near impossible to demo these items with my current system set-up at my UK base) and therefore will have no clue of any sound improvements they may make.
IMHO/IME:
- Don’t do first 3.
- (4) Cartridge is a consumable object. Higher priced one doesn’t have to sound better than a lower priced one. There can be big differences even between same models cause quality control is very poor among cartridge manufacturers in general. The same is true for stylus and cantilever manufacturers too. Consider upgrading your cartridge only when you have an opportunity to audition at your home or a place you’re familiar with the sound.
- (5) Do buy CH X1. It’s not necessary and doesn’t make a huge difference but still makes an improvement. You can sell it if you don’t like it.
Just a quick note regarding the MSL cartridges (Disclosure: recent dealer for them). I initially bought the Gold Sig and it was wonderful, very musical and dynamic with lots of detail and great harmonics. A customer was over and heard it and wanted one but just a bit to much $$ so I offered my own to him at a discount (only had less than 40 hrs on it...probably still not fully broken in). He grabbed it and I bought the Platinum Sig. The Platinum is the more accurate cartridge and has even more detail but all in all very similar BUT I did prefer the more musical Gold Sig at least in my system. This on a Stabi R / Safir combo. One thing I did find strange was the Gold took playing for close to 25 hrs before opening up and "singing" where the Platinum sang much sooner. Also these cartrdiges are VERY dependant on precise VTF.
Hi 'mtemur',
Thank you very much for your opinions and experience on my current upgrade path dilemma. Very much appreciated.
Yes, I am now thinking along the same lines 'mtemur' as you, as it does make more logical sense i.e. buy a used CH P1 first (sell it if I don't find it contributes much to sound upgrade or keep it to also power future CH Precision equipment I may purchase), then when the time comes to change my cartridge due to wearability I can upgrade to a higher specification cartridge if I wish to.
Hi 'SOS',
Thank you for your experiences between the MSL Gold Sig. and MSL Platinum Sig. Very much appreciated.
Yes, I had the same experience with my Eminent Ex regarding fully opening up / being burnt in which I could hear differences from 0 to 100+ hours of use. I now have over 450 hours on my Ex (recording usage via taking notes every time I use it and a digital stylus timer as back up) and it sounds great (although still keep wondering how much better a MSL Gold Sig. or Platinum Sig. is over my Ex with the CH P1's MCC1 & MCC2 current input connections).
Have you tried speaking with Kevin Scott at Definitive Audio? As well as his own wonderful Living Voice speakers, he is the Kuzma dealer in the UK and can help you out with 1-3 above.
In addition, until last year, he was also a CH Precision dealer, so will be able to give you a view on the CH X1 quandary.
He's an absolute gentleman, and you can do much worse than spend an afternoon at Definitive Audio listening to great music on some pretty special equipment.
IME setting up a lot of tables and arms it that the motor system is the holy grail (with a heavy/dead plinth) and how well the arm is setup to take advantage of the cart being used. What is best under 50k is largely dependent on the setup of the table and arm/cart. The same table and same arm different setup has the potential to be great and terrible. I have seen this many times. I find most buy off aesthetics with regard to table design.
I have been to many homes and shows where the >50k table skips when walking by it or you see when the arm is lifted the cantilever leans. As I mostly deal in bespoke designs made by smaller manufacturers the quality of the table is almost always superb in performance and there is a lot to choose from under 50k.
A good example of this is this restored P10 done by Torqueo. It is an old table, completely redone from scratch and I would put it against many tables over the 50k mark handily
I have been to many homes and shows where the >50k table skips when walking by it or you see when the arm is lifted the cantilever leans. As I mostly deal in bespoke designs made by smaller manufacturers the quality of the table is almost always superb in performance and there is a lot to choose from under 50k.
A good example of this is this restored P10 done by Torqueo. It is an old table, completely redone from scratch and I would put it against many tables over the 50k mark handily
Hi 'AudioAbe',
Thank you for your reply to my post. Much appreciated.
I know Kevin and had the great pleasure in meeting him at a UK Hifi Show last year. A true gentleman and presenting one of the best sounding systems (to my ears) at the show.
However, I feel a bit embarrassed in asking Kevin such questions I have regarding my thinking's for upgrading my turntable set-up on the basis that I may not buy anything for Definitive Audio and feel I am wasting his precious time.
I dare not go to Definitive Audio (which is only about an hours drive from in Birmingham, UK) as for sure (on the basis of the system I heard last year at the UK hifi show) I would want to buy one of Kevin's systems which wouldn't be at all possible unless I won the lottery !
Amazing music machine S7 Simon Yorke, simple no complex electronics, just move the belt for a speed of 33.45, 78 simply in the tonearm setting. sit back and enjoy the music. fantastic symbiosis with allaerts or koetsu carts.
invest the rest of the money in a good phonoamp . moon lp610 or tube tron 7 ultimate sounds great with both.
invest the rest of the money in a good phonoamp . moon lp610 or tube tron 7 ultimate sounds great with both.
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