Breaking news from DCS….

The industry has definitely shifted - it's a luxury industry. it is what is ..

the good news is that there are many products to cater to many subjective tastes. For example, have heard the wilson chronosonic wamm junior a number times, but I would take one of my lower systems, zu druid system, at 1/70 the cost. Likewise, I would take a $5K totaldac or lampizator over any dcs product I heard, including vivaldi, msb select 2, etc.
I was using the the Vivaldi One with the Vivaldi clock and Cybershaft OP21 clock and was very happy until I auditioned a Lampizator Pacific. With "only" stocktubes it fostered a greater emotional experience and I sold my dCS/Cybershaft gear without a second thought. Since then with extensive tube rolling and the PAC2 upgrade I am in sonic heaven...for now!
 
I was using the the Vivaldi One with the Vivaldi clock and Cybershaft OP21 clock and was very happy until I auditioned a Lampizator Pacific. With "only" stocktubes it fostered a greater emotional experience and I sold my dCS/Cybershaft gear without a second thought. Since then with extensive tube rolling and the PAC2 upgrade I am in sonic heaven...for now!

I could never do a tubed DAC as my DAC, preamp and amp run 24x7, even when I am away from home on vacation.

When I buy a typical component it only gets powered off only for redoing the equipment rack, new cables, power failures or when it's time to sell it.

The exception is my phono stage, which is tubed and thus only powered up when I listen to records.
 
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Are you using a specific geographical market such as North America to make this observation and claim? You do know that the world is a little bigger than North America...?

Of course, it will be different based on market size and geography ... the underlying assumption is that the dealers will be acting in their self interest, and in the interest of their clients ... Thank God for free markets, as we can partake in this luxury hobby.
 
If you equate price with performance, you're not listening and aren't an audiophile anyway, just someone with money to burn.

People have this weird idea that audiophiles impress each other with the price of their systems, yet I've never met one who does that, it's always about the sound.

Maybe I'm just lucky.
First sentence. Agree and that is the way it should be. Second sentence. My comment was intended to be taken within a broader context, not necessarily just audio. Should have clarified. Sorry.
 
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I was using the the Vivaldi One with the Vivaldi clock and Cybershaft OP21 clock and was very happy until I auditioned a Lampizator Pacific. With "only" stocktubes it fostered a greater emotional experience and I sold my dCS/Cybershaft gear without a second thought. Since then with extensive tube rolling and the PAC2 upgrade I am in sonic heaven...for now!
Which clock cable did you used ?
 
Personally, I find MSB to be a lot more fatiguing than dCS Rossini and Vivaldi APEX with their respective clocks (neither is great without them), and I've never been all that impressed by Wadax.
Share this impression, but felt the Cascade (which thus far I only heard at the show in Munich) may be a step into the right direction in this regard for MSB. As to Wadax, the common theme in every system I heard it was the dynamic flatness - not sure why anyone would find this appealing (for what it's worth, I find all attempts at designing DACs to be "non-fatiguing" by making them sound overly smooth, rolled-off in the treble, or dynamically compressed counter-intuitive - a DAC on this price level isn't supposed to compromise but sound non-fatiguing whilst getting the most out of my music files).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
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Share this impression, but felt the Cascade (which thus far I only heard at the show in Munich) may be a step into the right direction in this regard for MSB. As to Wadax, the common theme in every system I heard it was the dynamic flatness - not sure why anyone would find this appealing (for what it's worth, I find all attempts at designing DACs to be "non-fatiguing" by making them sound overly smooth, rolled-off in the treble, or dynamically compressed counter-intuitive - a DAC on this price level isn't supposed to compromise but sound non-fatiguing whilst getting the most out of my music files).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Haven't heard the Cascade yet, so that sounds promising.
 
Share this impression, but felt the Cascade (which thus far I only heard at the show in Munich) may be a step into the right direction in this regard for MSB. As to Wadax, the common theme in every system I heard it was the dynamic flatness - not sure why anyone would find this appealing (for what it's worth, I find all attempts at designing DACs to be "non-fatiguing" by making them sound overly smooth, rolled-off in the treble, or dynamically compressed counter-intuitive - a DAC on this price level isn't supposed to compromise but sound non-fatiguing whilst getting the most out of my music files).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

In assessing dynamic flatness, have you compared the Wadax directly with other DACs in the same system?
 
In assessing dynamic flatness, have you compared the Wadax directly with other DACs in the same system?
Not other DACs, but turntables that are a known quantity, and again, it's been the common denominator in all systems using Wadax that I've heard, in short, logic has it, it's a thing. No intention of going into a digital versus vinyl discussion, to my mind there's absolutely no reason a DAC should sound less dynamic (that impression is a consequence of - intentional - compression in modern remastering e.g. for iTunes, and has nothing to do with gear).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
Not other DACs, but turntables that are a known quantity, and again, it's been the common denominator in all systems using Wadax that I've heard, in short, logic has it, it's a thing. No intention of going into a digital versus vinyl discussion, to my mind there's absolutely no reason a DAC should sound less dynamic (that impression is a consequence of - intentional - compression in modern remastering e.g. for iTunes, and has nothing to do with gear).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
Hello David,

Can you please explain what you exactly mean with ‘dynamic flatness’? I am asking because in my Tidal LA system there is no flatness whatsoever with my Wadax reference dac/server combo. On the contrary, depending on and varying with the digital recordings the Wadax reference combination is extremely dynamic sounding while at the same time it is clearly differing in that department between various recordings.

And just to be sure: It is not my intention to ‘defend’ Wadax or start an argument or something like that with you, it is just that I really cannot understand where you are coming from.
 
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Not other DACs, but turntables that are a known quantity, and again, it's been the common denominator in all systems using Wadax that I've heard, in short, logic has it, it's a thing. No intention of going into a digital versus vinyl discussion,
you just did that, of course. your choice.
to my mind there's absolutely no reason a DAC should sound less dynamic (that impression is a consequence of - intentional - compression in modern remastering e.g. for iTunes, and has nothing to do with gear).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
well, David, respectfully, if there is no reason that a DAC should sound less dynamic, please at least explain which DAC/SERVER combo that you have heard is not held back by this 'less dynamic' thing so we can understand your reference for digital streaming. or is this a silver disc<->file issue for you? and not a Wadax issue at all.
 
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MSB never had it's Select II reviewed or measured either, and it ruled the roost for a number of years with many satisfied customers.

That’s neither here not there Mike. “Ruled the roost” among owners means absolutely nothing without an objective 3rd party perspective. I’m not saying 3rd party measurements is everything, but dCS doesn’t hide from it. Wadax has none. I wonder what they're afraid of. How many owners will ditch them if it turns out Wadax is tweaking the sound with massive amounts of low-order harmonics?

Stereophile has always ignored uber priced products... let's see if they review the new $40K wadax

Come on! Thats not true at all. Plenty of uber priced products have been reviewed and measured by Stereophile.

Examples;

https://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/704wavac/index.html
https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-chronosonic-xvx-loudspeaker
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mbl-reference-9011-monoblock-amplifier-specifications
https://www.stereophile.com/content/lamm-industries-ml3-signature-monoblock-power-amplifier

Need more?

No doubt within a year Stereophile will review and measure the dCS Varese, just like they’ve done with every other dCS flagship system in the last 20 years.
 
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That’s neither here not there Mike. “Ruled the roost” among owners means absolutely nothing without an objective 3rd party perspective.
i have to completely disagree. 3rd party views are just data points. and the MSB Select II was a leading dac as much as dCS was ever that in previous years. just how it happened to those paying attention.

ok. others look for chinks in Wadax armour and ask for measurements too. not much else to say.
 
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Hello David,

Can you please explain what you exactly mean with ‘dynamic flatness’? I am asking because in my Tidal LA system there is no flatness whatsoever with my Wadax reference dac/server combo. On the contrary, depending on and varying with the digital recordings the Wadax reference combination is extremely dynamic sounding while at the same time it is clearly differing in that department between various recordings.

And just to be sure: It is not my intention to ‘defend’ Wadax or start an argument or something like that with you, it is just that I really cannot understand where you are coming from.
Dynamic Flatness? are we making of terms now to do hatchet jobs on products? I truly wonder if people that say such things have ever heard a great system with a Wadax Reference in it. I personally have respect for dCS and MSB , they make excellent products however having heard both extensively in my own system and in others I can say without concern that a Wadax has incredible dynamics and is superior IMO to the competition at this time. I look foward to the new products from dCS and MSB as they will certainly shine a light on the quest for digital performance and we shall see what they have accomplished. To be the king you have to slay the king as they say. The Wadax sword is sharp and ready to be drawn! ( sorry I am auditioning for the new Game of Thrones :)
 
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Dynamic Flatness? are we making of terms now to do hatchet jobs on products? I truly wonder if people that say such things have ever heard a great system with a Wadax Reference in it. I personally have respect for dCS and MSB , they make excellent products however having heard both extensively in my own system and in others I can say without concern that a Wadax has incredible dynamics and is superior IMO to the competition at this time. I look foward to the new products from dCS and MSB as they will certainly shine a light on the quest for digital performance and we shall see what they have accomplished. To be the king you have to slay the king as they say. The Wadax sword is sharp and ready to be drawn! ( sorry I am auditioning for the new Game of Thrones :)
The Wadax reference dac is the most dynamic sounding dac I have ever listened to (and believe me, I listened to an awful lot of (top notch) dacs in my life). So I really cannot understand the remark from David. He has not reacted (yet) cq answered my question to him but I suppose he (only) listened (how many times?) to the Wadax reference dac under - apparently very - difficult cq unfavorable show conditions.
 
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Hello David,

Can you please explain what you exactly mean with ‘dynamic flatness’? I am asking because in my Tidal LA system there is no flatness whatsoever with my Wadax reference dac/server combo. On the contrary, depending on and varying with the digital recordings the Wadax reference combination is extremely dynamic sounding while at the same time it is clearly differing in that department between various recordings.

And just to be sure: It is not my intention to ‘defend’ Wadax or start an argument or something like that with you, it is just that I really cannot understand where you are coming from.
Discussing dynamics I usually differentiate between macro ("jump factor") and micro dynamics, the latter being what @morricab refers to as "downward dynamics", a great term as it describes how well one hears low volume details when the music gets real loud. The latter isn't easy to grasp simply because when actual dynamic compression is applied during mastering in e.g. music mastered for iTunes (my pet peeve being that the exact same remasterings regularly make their way to high-resolution downloads and streaming services), softer passages become more audible, and somewhere between real-life realism and elevator music, there's a dynamic compression level (as used to press LPs) most listeners tend to find acceptable, what I'd call "unoffensive". I can't stand it when people refer to this type of compression level as "analogue" sounding, even if they technically speaking have a point (that they're not actually trying to make) for the aforementioned reason (pressing maximum macro dynamics into vinyl grooves).

Now this impression I have that the systems we heard using Wadax show this quality of holding back in terms of macro-dynamic jump and liveliness, and show these unoffensive downwards dynamics that I'm guessing many will find make for easy listening is one all of my audiophile friends and acquaintances. Maybe we merely got unlucky, and besides, if what's more likely is that we're all hearing the exact same thing, and some like it and I (we) don't, that's fine with me.

To further explain where I'm coming from, I'm primarily a classical music aficionado. Tone and downwards dynamics are paramount for great classical music playback, whereas great macro dynamics are a definite plus. From that perspective, playback that sounds "flat" to me (lacks in dynamic range, in particular both ways) isn't "offensive" to me, but tame, and not what I want. My personal preference is with a realistically dynamic sound BUT free from distortion.

I suffer from migraine and some digital playback will trigger migraines just like a flickering lightbulb. I'm glad to say none of the Wadax playback I heard had this effect. But at the same time I know from experience that dynamics have nothing to do with whether sound is "aggressive" - it can perfectly well be lively yet undistorted. All the times I heard Wadax I did find the sound undistorted, but lacking in liveliness (and each time the LP playback in the same systems sounded more dynamic, which doesn't match my experience with systems in which we compared LP or open-reel playback to e.g. dCS Apex or Lampizator).

Not sure I'm making myself clear? Besides, I'd like to mention that no one seems to understand I like both the dCS Apex (Rossini and Vivaldi) and Lampizator (TRP, Pacific and Horizon), as I do like different gear for different reasons, and feel I'm entitled to do so. There's no arguing tastes.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
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Discussing dynamics I usually differentiate between macro ("jump factor") and micro dynamics, the latter being what @morricab refers to as "downward dynamics", a great term as it describes how well one hears low volume details when the music gets real loud. The latter isn't easy to grasp simply because when actual dynamic is applied during mastering in e.g. music mastered for iTunes (my pet peeve being that the exact same remasterings regularly make their way to high-resolution downloads and streaming services), softer passages become more audible, and somewhere between real-life realism and elevator music, there's a dynamic compression level (as used to press LPs) most listeners tend to find acceptable, what I'd call "unoffensive". I can't stand it when people refer to this type of compression level as "analogue" sounding, even if they technically speaking have a point (that they're not actually trying to make) for the aforementioned reason (pressing maximum macro dynamics into vinyl grooves).

Now this impression I have that the systems we heard using Wadax show this quality of holding back in terms of macro-dynamic jump and liveliness, and show these unoffensive downwards dynamics that I'm guessing many will find make for easy listening is one all of my audiophile friends and acquaintances. Maybe we merely got unlucky, and besides, if what's more likely is that we're all hearing the exact same thing, and some like it and I (we) don't, that's fine with me.

To further explain where I'm coming from, I'm primarily a classical music aficionado. Tone and downwards dynamics are paramount for great classical music playback, whereas great macro dynamics are definite plus. From that perspective, playback that sounds "flat" to me (lacks in dynamic range, in particular both ways) isn't "offensive" to me, but tame, and not what I want. My personal preference is with a realistically dynamic sound BUT free from distortion.

I suffer from migraine and some digital playback will trigger migraines just like a flickering lightbulb. I'm glad to say noe the Wadax playback I heard had this effect. But at the same time I know from experience that dynamics have nothing to do with whether sound is "aggressive" - it can perfectly well be lively yet undistorted. All the times I heard Wadax I did find the sound undistorted, but lacking in liveliness (and each time the LP playback in the same systems sounded more dynamic, which doesn't match my experience with systems in which we compared LP or open-reel playback to e.g. dCS Apex or Lampizator).

Not sure I'm making myself clear? Besides, I'd like to mention that no one seems to understand I like both the dCS Apex (Rossini and Vivaldi) and Lampizator (TRP, Pacific and Horizon), as I do like different gear for different reasons, and feel I'm entitled to do so. There's no arguing tastes.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
Just for reference, what digital are you using yourself ?
 
you just did that, of course. your choice.

well, David, respectfully, if there is no reason that a DAC should sound less dynamic, please at least explain which DAC/SERVER combo that you have heard is not held back by this 'less dynamic' thing so we can understand your reference for digital streaming. or is this a silver disc<->file issue for you? and not a Wadax issue at all.
I'm hoping you're right. In fact I'm reminded of what I said to my audiophile buddies each time we heard Wadax, that I'm hoping this can't be all there is to it. Would like to mention this reminds me of so many systems with dCS converters I've heard, somewhat analytical and as a result not too engaging musically, which I've always found interesting because the same dCS components sound wonderful in some systems.

I make it a rule to base my personal verdict on a component on the best, not the worst system synergy I've heard it in.

It strikes me as logical that as long as one has heard a component in systems that underperform, one shouldn't jump to conclusions, but that when one hears a system that sounds great, it makes sense to assume the components can't be bad.

I'm not here to pick a fight. Anyone who's happy listening to whatever it is they like please feel free to ignore my opinion (anyone's opinion for that matter). I've certainly done so with my audiophile buddies, none of whom seems to like the Vivaldi Apex, at least until they heard a couple of systems whose sound quality they praised and where it was my turn to point out the source component was just that.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
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