I understand. I have also been told that used SME 30s have dried up in Europe as the demand for them as platforms for the SAT tonearm has increased. It is now difficult to find a good 30 on the used market in Europe where there were always a few good ones available. Of course, this is only anecdotal. According to my dealer, there remains a waiting list for some new SME table models so they are popular somewhere, maybe just not on audio forums. It remains to be seen what the new ownership has in mind for the brand.
Brinkmann Balance.
- Thread starter Gary J
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I understand. I have also been told that used SME 30s have dried up in Europe as the demand for them as platforms for the SAT tonearm has increased. It is now difficult to find a good 30 on the used market in Europe where there were always a few good ones available. Of course, this is only anecdotal. According to my dealer, there remains a waiting list for some new SME table models so they are popular somewhere, maybe just not on audio forums. It remains to be seen what the new ownership has in mind for the brand.
Some say the SP-10 DD tables sound cold or analytical compared to some belt drive tables and some say the 4 point arm can sound too detailed and has little warmth like some other arms like Tri-Planar. One thing I know for sure my system needs body, weight, and authority because I have electrostatic speakers and the more a turntable has of these qualities the better my system sounds. I have owned Sound Lab Ultimate One speakers for the last 23 years and I also know what they need in my system to really make them sing. I have also heard the Stabi M has lots of body and this makes me want to lean that way. Technics or Kuzma, any owners of both please chime in.
Gary, I don’t believe you’ll be disappointed in Stabi M tone density, heft, speed stability etc. The Technics may need more of an “adjustment” from you compared to usual belt drive presentation.
Ie the Stabi M would be the more straightforward choice.
Ie the Stabi M would be the more straightforward choice.
Hi iaxel, I was looking at the AF3 until some said the AF2 and AF1 are so much better sonically, I am not sure what this means compared to other tables and I know the AF2 and AF1 are so much more expensive then the AF3. Some have said the AF tables are not their cup of tea, again not sure what that means but I love the look of your table and I think you know there is a premium version of your table coming out soon if not already. Again great picture of your table Im sure it is high quality in every way and I am not sure Technics can match this kind of quality because they are more mass produced and I think the smaller companies take more care in their products because their life depends on it.
I have a strong feeling that the AF3 with a serious vibration control table (Vibraplane, Hertzan, etc) will revival the AF2 in sound quality and crush it in the looks department.
Do not dismiss the TW Acustic Raven. But it must be considered only with the 3-motor pod which takes belt drive to an uber level. Plus superb customer service from Jeff Catalano at Highwater Sound.
These are the quotes from AF3 review by HFN
I cannot reproduce the whole thing for copyright reason but can email it
Sprit, and so many opinions, right now my head is spinning, maybe I should take a dart board and put the names of the top tables on the board and throw a dart at it so what ever name it lands on that is the one I should go with LOL. Today is my 63rd Birthday and my wife is taking me out to eat. I do not drink but maybe I should tonight just a little to take my mind off of this huge decision but please keep the suggestions coming this helps me more then reading a review from someone that is paid big money to only say nice things about the product they are reviewing.
Don’t dismiss sme 20 and 30; as with new motor controllers they are equal of AF 1/2
Some would argue the sme V is not equal of other arms or 3012R, which suggest possibly going in different DIRECTION on arm selection for SME 20/30
It is of no concern. Thomas Woschnick’s belts are bullet proof and don’t even seem to wear out. There is no better belt in the industry.
Gary, if it’s of any consequence, I could only really see myself with the Stabi M if I ever decided to return to belt drive. The convergence of cost, design envelope, sound signature, all would point me more to the Kuzma than the other belt drives already mentioned.
As far as I have understood the AF1 & AF2 are not in your budget, so why is it important to compare them to the AF3?
Makes sense that costier products from a (good) manufacturer present a better overall quality.
I know of someone who owned the Kuzma XL with all the latest upgrades/updates, bought an AF3 and haven’t looked back. I'm less enthusiastic about Kuzma's products, as their build quality is not up to the standard I'm looking for when paying this amount of money.
I've read about the AF3 premium version, but it is totally re-built due to the weight of its platter and the 'standard' AF3 cannot be upgraded to it, also, it costs almost 50% more than the 'standard' AF3.
Sprit, you seem to be stable with the Kuzma Stabi M and yes if I go with this table I will get it in red as that is my favorite color. I have mentioned this color combination in past threads and I have got no comments on the color so I guess I am the only one that likes it in red http://www.avmentor.gr/features/photos/munich_highend_2014/part_1/high_resolution/kuzma_stabi_m.jpg this will be my last turntable but like Custer said there can't be that many Indians over the hill, I think we can take them so lets go!
iaxel, I did not know it was 50% more but I do like a upgrade path to anything I buy because I do not like to be left out in the future. It is of my opinion that if a company wants to offer an upgrade on their products they can, anything can be changed for a update price rather then making someone sell that product take a 50% drop in value then buy the new product for a lot more money. Again just my opinion, thanks for the info.
Gary
Spotheim who did a lot of research on belt stretchiness suggested between 180 to 200 percent, otherwise a no stretch belt is preferable
I personally have always had a intellectual issue with belt hysteresis, but the speed accuracy of SME and AF suggest this is a solved issue
Alternatively AS which is also exceptional uses a non stretch belt
Spotheim who did a lot of research on belt stretchiness suggested between 180 to 200 percent, otherwise a no stretch belt is preferable
I personally have always had a intellectual issue with belt hysteresis, but the speed accuracy of SME and AF suggest this is a solved issue
Alternatively AS which is also exceptional uses a non stretch belt
