To my ears and tastes, I will take a Concert Fidelity pre. any day of the week over a Burmester 808 MK5, IMHO. I know I listened to both over a year. Burmester I find, is too romantic.
Burmester 911 mk3
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To my ears and tastes, I will take a Concert Fidelity pre. any day of the week over a Burmester 808 MK5, IMHO. I know I listened to both over a year. Burmester I find, is too romantic.
Really terrible. People are killing my bias expectation before I manage to listen to a 911mk3 system! I must read Jeff review again very soon ...
+1. I just logged into WBF to ask this exact question (Dart vs. Colosseum)
That would be an interesting read. Look forward to it.
When I do get the Dartzeel preamp, I plan on running the Zeel BNC connection at least to the amp. Playback Designs is the only unit I know that has the BNC connection so I plan on trying that unit.
I have no intention to look elsewhere for now. I'm completely satisfied with my 808/Mephisto combo right now.
Had a Mephisto for several years with a highly modified CJ Premier DAC9: heaven. Enjoy your 808 MK5, it looks awesome. I want everyone to know I love Burmester gear, it is just not to MY taste.
Joe,
CH Precision has a DAC/player that supports the Zeel BNC links too. I've heard/read good things about them, but unfortunately no reports with darTZeel gear. It'd be interesting to know how it fares against the Playback.
alexandre
You had a Mephisto for several years. I thought the amp has been out for less than two?
Thanks Alexandre,
I'll look into CH Precision. I know they have a great reputation. I am extremely happy with my EMM Labs DAC2X/TSDX combo at the moment so I'll see what the future brings.
+1. I just logged into WBF to ask this exact question (Dart vs. Colosseum)
OK Gents, here goes my very personal, non-scientific, personal opinion. No vitriole please...its Christmas!
I deeply, deeply respect the might DTZL and in fact, just heard the pre/amp again in the same room with Wilsons which i know very well, and with same source (Metronome Kalista). I also have heard the Momentums in the same room, stereo and mono with Wilsons and the same Metronome source.
DTZL pre/amp is exceptionally well executed across the board, neutral, balanced, very very extended and very very smooth. Execution is very high here.
compared to the Momentums:
- Momentums strike me as more muscled...it was designed by Dan D'Agostino...
- But the Momentums also have such finely threaded treble and ability to deliver musical notes/lines, it is basically the DTZL on speed
- I find it the most delicate SS muscle amp i have ever heard
- I found the monos 'shouted' a bit more than the stereo which also seemed a touch sweeter to me.
- 2 industry professionals who heard them in the same room were over at my place yesterday and commented the same
As for Gryphon, i would say the Colosseum is more muscled than all...subjective. It also delivers an intensity of tone and sweetness which leaves the DTZL behind...a very organic presentation whereas i find the DTZL extremely intellectual in its excellent approach, but not for me.
The Momentum is more its rival than DTZL imho, but i prefer Gryphon as i find it more full more full bodied. I could see some preferring Momentum due to its finely threaded treble...Gryphon definitely more full bodied here but in no way fat.
Overall...i find the Gryphon in its own class as someone who prefers power, incredibly nuanced microdynamic shadings and sweetness of tone, and density of notes...with fullness. I would say Momentum is thus next nearly matching all but not quite power, nor fulllness of notes. And DTZL is left behind as incredibly well executed but alas too intellectual an assembly of technical merits without as organic a delivery as Gryphon.
This is exceptionally personal and not scientific in any way. I have seriously considered DTZL and Momentums when i auditioned them, but for me I stick with Gryphon.
Sorry, ment Audiomecca Mephisto transport. And (drum roll please) anybody read this from Positive feedback:
"The Kharma MP150 offered at $6800/pair is a freak occurrence, a rare marketplace anomaly. This is a case of extreme value. Had they been packaged in a larger, fancier chassis, I have no doubt they would have no problem selling at $10,000 or more. I can't think of a competitive solid-state amp at anywhere near this price. The one that comes to mind is the darTZeel NHB-108 with its $18,000 MSRP. The MP150 is better. Marshall Nack"
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Love is a subjective emotion. We've got to remember that MarinJim treats his equipment like he treats girls in college
I still think that the Burmester 911 Mk III to be the one of the best amplifiers in the world. But just a couple of days ago, I was asked why I wasn't bringing it to CES, but I'm bringing the Viola Bravo.
My answer was quite simple, the Bravo is also one of the best amplifiers in the world. Having spent two weeks with it in my system, I think that the Bravo is light and playful whereas the 911 is warm and cuddly. If you look at the music I'm bringing to CES, it will be showing off the playfulness of the Bravo.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-10th-Anniversary-Show-International-CES-2013
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garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
I also managed to spend a couple of days with the Colosseum here - and the same speaker:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?4197-Genesis-G2Jr-Premieres-in-Europe-Oct-8-9
I thought then that the Colosseum was also one of the best amplifiers in the world. More nimble than the 911, slightly stronger, but not as warm.
FM Acoustics, another "best amplifier in the world" was fast and detailed and resolute - again with the same speaker.
Unfortunately, there is no perfect amplifier. At least with amps we get to be "serially monogamous". Can't do that with wives or girlfriends
Happy Holidays, folks!
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?4197-Genesis-G2Jr-Premieres-in-Europe-Oct-8-9
I thought then that the Colosseum was also one of the best amplifiers in the world. More nimble than the 911, slightly stronger, but not as warm.
FM Acoustics, another "best amplifier in the world" was fast and detailed and resolute - again with the same speaker.
Unfortunately, there is no perfect amplifier. At least with amps we get to be "serially monogamous". Can't do that with wives or girlfriends
Happy Holidays, folks!
lloyd,
I sort of agree with you there, regarding the darTZeel. It's anything but a muscle amp. And if muscle is what you want (and like), you won't find it there.
Matter of fact, when I temporarily put a Krell 402e in the place of my 108, I was enjoying it quite a bit, mostly for all that muscularity, and the way the Krell handled the bass on my Dynaudios. I can understand people preferring that to the 108. But to me, as I said before, once I put the 108 back, I knew what I was getting in return for the Krell's power, and it was finesse, delicacy, sheer audio confort.
I understand the Gryphon brings some of that finesse, along with the muscle, and that's why they impressed me at the latest hi end show.
Two things regarding your darTZeel experience: what cables were you using (power, IC, speaker)? And WA is not a common pairing for the 108, IIRC. It might prove too much for its meagre 100W... If you can, hook it up to a more efficient/easier to drive speaker, like the Magico Q3/Q7.
alexandre
I sort of agree with you there, regarding the darTZeel. It's anything but a muscle amp. And if muscle is what you want (and like), you won't find it there.
Matter of fact, when I temporarily put a Krell 402e in the place of my 108, I was enjoying it quite a bit, mostly for all that muscularity, and the way the Krell handled the bass on my Dynaudios. I can understand people preferring that to the 108. But to me, as I said before, once I put the 108 back, I knew what I was getting in return for the Krell's power, and it was finesse, delicacy, sheer audio confort.
I understand the Gryphon brings some of that finesse, along with the muscle, and that's why they impressed me at the latest hi end show.
Two things regarding your darTZeel experience: what cables were you using (power, IC, speaker)? And WA is not a common pairing for the 108, IIRC. It might prove too much for its meagre 100W... If you can, hook it up to a more efficient/easier to drive speaker, like the Magico Q3/Q7.
alexandre
But always with respect!Love is a subjective emotion. We've got to remember that MarinJim treats his equipment like he treats girls in college
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Alexandre,
Is the Q3/Q7 easier to drive than Q5 ? I'm asking since I only heard the darTZeel 108 with the Q5.
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