Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

Also has anyone compared DSD and other hi res files / streaming to vinyl?
It blows away Vinyl so hard it's not even funny .
Actually DSD is the closest to the sound that was recorded in the studio , he can hear no difference to at all
Paul from PS Audio says it himself .
And vinyl "has a sound of it's own " That's a direct quote from him .
Not to mention that vinyl is a copy from the digital master .
Nothing can sound better than the master itself, period .

@pearljam5000,​

You keep quoting from other sites, but knowing your system preferences and experiences are more important. We desire to know what kind of Digital system you have that triumphs so victoriously over TT sound.

Please identify your personal system - speakers, amps, Pre amp, digital source(s), cables, etc. that betters your vinyl experience(s).

What are your vinyl experiences? What TTs, arm(s), cart(s), and phono Pre(s) have you tried in your system?

Please post some pictures of your system…
 
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@pearljam5000,​

You keep quoting from other sites, but knowing your system preferences and experiences are more important.

Please identify your personal system - speakers, amps, Pre amp, digital source(s), cables, etc. that betters your vinyl experience(s).

What are your vinyl experiences? What TTs, arm(s), cart(s), and phono Pre(s) have you tried in your system?

Please post some pictures of your system…
Well my style of system is not welcome around here and I'm between systems so I'd rather not go into detail
I just don't understand why people just don't argue with the facts instead of using an ad hominem argument .
 
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Well my style of system is not welcome around here and I'm between systems so I'd rather not go into detail
I just don't understand why people just don't argue with the facts instead of using an ad hominem argument .

I believe all systems are welcome here. There are less expensive ones to those that are well over a million +. Some people just own headphone systems, others computer systems, and some more extravagant ones. So, please post what your latest system was tell us what you’re looking at getting… We enjoy that type of stuff and it tells us a lot about you and your tastes.

Facts include our listening experiences as well - subjective, but still a fact for the listener. That’s why I desire to know your system which helps identify your listening experiences.

Honestly everything you’ve posted so far is more personal opinion from other sites. And you have to properly interpret that information, as some of what you quoted in regards vinyl isn’t even relevant to the end listener. Measurements matter, but they don't all matter the same. That’s already been pointed out above. Please consider going back and re-reading the replies you received.
 
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I believe all systems are welcome here. There are less expensive ones to those that are well over a million +. Some people just own headphone systems, others computer systems, and some more extravagant ones.

+1

All big systems, all small systems, all headphone systems are very welcome here.
 
Love Stockhausen what about John Cage, Xenakis, Ligeti, Varese, Chavez, and Pierre Henry.

Like John Cage, *love* Xenakis, Ligeti, Varese. Don't know yet Chavez and Pierre Henry.

In recent days I have repeatedly spun this album:

8.554820.jpg
GREAT performances. Recording is excellent, very high resolution, wide dynamic range, huge soundstage. The Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra is top notch. I have seen them live at the Prague Spring Festival 2012 with Lutoslawski. It was sensational.
 
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I believe all systems are welcome here. There are less expensive ones to those that are well over a million +. Some people just own headphone systems, others computer systems, and some more extravagant ones. So, please post what your latest system was tell us what you’re looking at getting… We enjoy that type of stuff and it tells us a lot about you and your tastes.

Facts include our listening experiences as well - subjective, but still a fact for the listener. That’s why I desire to know your system which helps identify your listening experiences.

Honestly everything you’ve posted so far is more personal opinion from other sites. And you have to properly interpret that information, as some of what you quoted in regards vinyl isn’t even relevant to the end listener. Measurements matter, but they didn’t all matter the same. That’s already been pointed out above. Please consider going back and re-reading the replies you received.
Agreed.
 
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What is clear from this thread is folks definition of what a good recording is, varies quite dramatically. The key thing a good recording does for me is it totally engrosses me in the music. Any hint of digital harshness will break the spell. This album for example, digitally recorded,
is great on vinyl and harsh AF on CD:
Screenshot_2023_0731_090841.jpg
 
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Well my style of system is not welcome around here and I'm between systems so I'd rather not go into detail
no system or any system is good enough here. the forum is about a state of mind. not things. a system has nothing to do with posting unless you say it should. claim you heard some particular thing and now you might get asked about the system. it's then relevant. people want to learn and they are curious. a great system does not = credibility. it's just a part of the picture.

OTOH respect for listening opinions matters.
I just don't understand why people just don't argue with the facts instead of using an ad hominem argument .
'facts'?

this is about music reproduction. opinions about a subjective subject. we have preferences and feelings about what we hear. or why we hear it.

but throwing out numbers or graphs to make your point pretty much gets zero responses. which is why Amir is not here.

do you want to prove points or enjoy the hobby? as i posted before; we are proof-averse.
 
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Man a lot of folks in this thread trying to tell each other that their personal views and opinions are superior. It is like telling a guy, I guess your wife is nice enough even though she is fat. Enjoy what you like and leave it at that.
 
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Man a lot of folks in this thread trying to tell each other that their personal views and opinions are superior. It is like telling a guy, I guess your wife is nice enough even though she is fat. Enjoy what you like and leave it at that.

No, it's about THE OBJECTIVE TRUTH! Don't you understand? The more I YELL, the more TRUTHY my TRUTH becomes. I think that should be obvious ;).
 
Man a lot of folks in this thread trying to tell each other that their personal views and opinions are superior. It is like telling a guy, I guess your wife is nice enough even though she is fat. Enjoy what you like and leave it at that.
Or there is distortion (as yet unmeasurable) that some hear and some don't. In which case you may be proved wrong.

Btw I quite like some of these atmos recordings you keep going on about. Where do you buy/stream them?
 
I always go back to the ice cream analogy. Same ice cream but different taste buds and a different processor between our ears. As for Atmos, you can stream a ton of titles on Apple Music. Some are available on Blu rays which have the lossless true HD based Atmos vs. the Dolby Digital + Atmos on Apple. Yes, the lossy is damn good but the lossless is a bit better. I hear Spotify is going to add Atmos. As for downloads, Immersive Album Audio has some in MKV files, TRPTK sells downloads direct, Sound Liaison will be dipping their toes in soon as I hear NativeDSD will as well, as soon as they update their system. I have been lobbying some labels to sell us the true HD lossless Atmos. Right now, the best option is Apple Music.
 
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Amir Majidimehr and most of ASR members are trying to prove us their wrong opinion is a scientific fact.

When you want to have scientific view about "human music listening experience" then there is no meaningful scientific fact in objective measurements (of audio hardware) if you ignore objective model of human hearing system (ear and brain) .

if you follow ASR forum finally you get a ridiculous SINAD number and you will convince a $1000 DAC is better than Wadax DAC, It is totally absurd.
 
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Also has anyone compared DSD and other hi res files / streaming to vinyl?
It blows away Vinyl so hard it's not even funny .
Actually DSD is the closest to the sound that was recorded in the studio , he can hear no difference to at all
Paul from PS Audio says it himself .
And vinyl "has a sound of it's own " That's a direct quote from him .
Not to mention that vinyl is a copy from the digital master .
Nothing can sound better than the master itself, period .
I have done exactly that.
I have 245 titles on tapes (1st generation copies from commercial production masters, safety masters, some edited work parts mostly of my own symphonic and chamber music recordings, tapes released by AP, Horchhouse, Tape Project etc.), all of which I have transferred from my Nagra T using a balanced differential tube tape head preamp of my own construction, to DSD128 with a Tascam DA3000 recorder.
I recently bought a PS Audio Directstream Mk 2 DAC. Declaration: I am a writer for PS Audio's Copper magazine and bought it at staff price. I have been comparing some of these DSD128 files with the same recordings on ripped CDs, downloads and streaming sites, as well as the vinyl records (mostly original issues, a few modern reissues) and of course, the tapes in my collection.
After some initial teething problems (mostly ultrasonic noise since my system is flat to 50kHz with a pair of plasma tweeters, and my preamp has 1 MHz bandwidth), I find that I have to set the volume of the DAC at 100% and use my preamp for volume control. The sensitivity of my system is such at I could only use the first 20% of the range of volume control of the DAC if I plug it straight into my active crossover, which results in too much noise. Everything is fine at 100% volume. I guess I could have soldered L pads into the XLR plugs, but little is lost going through the preamp.
Even though the DAC only has about 40 hours on it so far, it sounds really good. And I have only hooked it up to my Mac Mini running Audirvana via a throw away USB cable. Compared to the source tapes, it is tonally identical, maybe with a bit of loss in the dynamics. Sound stage, transparency, ambiance etc. are very close. Perhaps it has a bit less of the overwhelming scale and density of sound that tapes exhibit. There is no digital artifact that I could hear. It is of course impossible to know if any degradation was due to the digital recorder or the DAC. The files are preferable to the vinyl to my ears in almost every case. Interestingly, the LP that comes closest to the tape so far is a Decca wide band ED2 issue of the Solti Beethoven 3rd from 1959. I bought the LP second hand when I was in uni, and I have forgotten about it for more than 35 years until recently. This is a fantastic recording which strangely has never been reissued in the modern era. I have the Classic reissue of Royal Ballet Gala Performance. Compared to the Decca tape (made in the early 1970s for an LP reissue), the vinyl has a harder edge, or I should say, lacks the tubey magic of the tape. I guess this is due to the solid state electronics used during the mastering. The vinyl sounds more impressive initially, and seems more dynamic, but ultimately less musical and natural. I also compared the Doug Sax remastered Ravel disc from the VOX box set, reissued by AP (AP007). Even though Sax used tube electronics, the findings are similar to the Royal Ballet; seems more dynamic, but less natural tonally. I have also a number of recordings ripped from SACDs released by Esoteric. Again, I think the remastering sounds more hi fi. Bass and treble are often boosted, not to a great degree, but it gives the impression of better instrument definition and with better dynamics and weight, but ultimately less natural and real. The real test is by closing my eyes and imagining if the music is played live in a concert hall. The DSD transfer from tape almost always have more beautiful string tone and the sound has more body. The SACD rips usually sound more upfront and "tense". The differences heard on the LPs might also come down to the analogue playback equipment. It is hard to better a professional tape machine such as the Nagra.
I have never owned an exotic DAC, but just comparing the DSD128 files played through this DAC to the original source, it is often close enough that I doubt paying a lot more would result in any great improvement. On the other hand, if the files were made with a better ADC, such as the Merging Horus, more differences could be revealed. As it is, I am pretty happy listening to the DSD128 most of the time, and leave the tapes for special occasions.
 
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I have done exactly that.
I have 245 titles on tapes (1st generation copies from commercial production masters, safety masters, some edited work parts mostly of my own symphonic and chamber music recordings, tapes released by AP, Horchhouse, Tape Project etc.), all of which I have transferred from my Nagra T using a balanced differential tube tape head preamp of my own construction, to DSD128 with a Tascam DA3000 recorder.
I recently bought a PS Audio Directstream Mk 2 DAC. Declaration: I am a writer for PS Audio's Copper magazine and bought it at staff price. I have been comparing some of these DSD128 files with the same recordings on ripped CDs, downloads and streaming sites, as well as the vinyl records (mostly original issues, a few modern reissues) and of course, the tapes in my collection.
After some initial teething problems (mostly ultrasonic noise since my system is flat to 50kHz with a pair of plasma tweeters, and my preamp has 1 MHz bandwidth), I find that I have to set the volume of the DAC at 100% and use my preamp for volume control. The sensitivity of my system is such at I could only use the first 20% of the range of volume control of the DAC if I plug it straight into my active crossover, which results in too much noise. Everything is fine at 100% volume. I guess I could have soldered L pads into the XLR plugs, but little is lost going through the preamp.
Even though the DAC only has about 40 hours on it so far, it sounds really good. And I have only hooked it up to my Mac Mini running Audirvana via a throw away USB cable. Compared to the source tapes, it is tonally identical, maybe with a bit of loss in the dynamics. Sound stage, transparency, ambiance etc. are very close. Perhaps it has a bit less of the overwhelming scale and density of sound that tapes exhibit. There is no digital artifact that I could hear. It is of course impossible to know if any degradation was due to the digital recorder or the DAC. The files are preferable to the vinyl to my ears in almost every case. Interestingly, the LP that comes closest to the tape so far is a Decca wide band ED2 issue of the Solti Beethoven 3rd from 1959. I bought the LP second hand when I was in uni, and I have forgotten about it for more than 35 years until recently. This is a fantastic recording which strangely has never been reissued in the modern era. I have the Classic reissue of Royal Ballet Gala Performance. Compared to the Decca tape (made in the early 1970s for an LP reissue), the vinyl has a harder edge, or I should say, lacks the tubey magic of the tape. I guess this is due to the solid state electronics used during the mastering. The vinyl sounds more impressive initially, and seems more dynamic, but ultimately less musical and natural. I also compared the Doug Sax remastered Ravel disc from the VOX box set, reissued by AP (AP007). Even though Sax used tube electronics, the findings are similar to the Royal Ballet; seems more dynamic, but less natural tonally. I have also a number of recordings ripped from SACDs released by Esoteric. Again, I think the remastering sounds more hi fi. Bass and treble are often boosted, not to a great degree, but it gives the impression of better instrument definition and with better dynamics and weight, but ultimately less natural and real. The real test is by closing my eyes and imagining if the music is played live in a concert hall. The DSD transfer from tape almost always have more beautiful string tone and the sound has more body. The SACD rips usually sound more upfront and "tense". The differences heard on the LPs might also come down to the analogue playback equipment. It is hard to better a professional tape machine such as the Nagra.
I have never owned an exotic DAC, but just comparing the DSD128 files played through this DAC to the original source, it is often close enough that I doubt paying a lot more would result in any great improvement. On the other hand, if the files were made with a better ADC, such as the Merging Horus, more differences could be revealed. As it is, I am pretty happy listening to the DSD128 most of the time, and leave the tapes for special occasions.
How do your recordings compare to Octave Records recordings, in general?
 
You said it better than me.
On a high end and we’ll setup TT with a good record there is no background noise. Zero. My digital components actually seem a slight bit higher in terms of noise floor, and these are about the best you can get.
Also if you very carefully listen to some SACDs and CDs that have been copied from original early analogue recordings (particularly early live and studio recorded jazz and classical music during quiet music passages), you can also hear the original background noises and higher noise floor levels than from an original modern digitally recorded track (on a digital system capable of a respectable transparency to hear such differences).
 
leave the tapes for special occasions.

Thank you for this interesting comparative report!

Unless you are listening as background music or otherwise in a non-dedicated way, why not play the source tapes routinely instead of the digital copies? Is it a matter of balancing sound quality and convenience?
 
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FYI: I just received a copy of "Chet" recut to 180gm from Craft Recordings for only $29.99 + shipping (Chet Baker's iconic LP, on Discogs for like $400 in VG+ condition)! Sounds fantastic, If anyone is interested.
The Hi-Res digital release of the album is spectacular as well.
 
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What is clear from this thread is folks definition of what a good recording is, varies quite dramatically. The key thing a good recording does for me is it totally engrosses me in the music. Any hint of digital harshness will break the spell.

It could also be that your digital playback system is not optimal? We certainly cannot know by simply discussing things here. Nothing replaces listening...
 
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