Clarisys Audio Auditorium Loudspeaker

[Audiohertz2]

Quite a few things improve. Some highlights: double the impedance, twice the current in the magnetic field, higher resolution, less movement (movement is not good, movement equals non linearity, I don't know why companies proudly advertise that on a ribbon/planar speaker).

But most importantly, the same tonality, decay and texture across the range and crossover regions. Different drivers have different sounds, different textures and speed. By employing the same driver across the entire range, you reduce this problem to non existent.

Will you be at the show? I can show you

You need excursion to produce energy , the idea is to keep them linear in the field , so some do go this way ..!

Regards

 

[Florian]

Double sided as in both sides of the foil is covered ..?

As in Aluminum/Kapton/Aluminum. Best regards

 

[Florian]

You need excursion to produce energy , the idea is to keep them linear in the field , so some do go this way ..!

Regards

Yes, doesn't mean we have to. We also don't believe in complex external passive crossovers that's why you won't find a single resistor in our crossovers anymore.

 

[matthias]

Yes, doesn't mean we have to. We also don't believe in complex external passive crossovers that's why you won't find a single resistor in our crossovers anymore.

What do you think about series crossovers? Nothing beats the musicality of a first order series crossover.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Yes, doesn't mean we have to. We also don't believe in complex external passive crossovers that's why you won't find a single resistor in our crossovers anymore.

Do you use autoformer as resisitors exsample

I

 

[Audiohertz2]

Do you use autoformer as resisitors exsample
View attachment 128093
I

Prolly using the number of series traces to increase impedance for attenuation ..!

Resistors do affect the quality of sound to the very sensitive ribbon traces , ribbons tend to be resistance and inductance sensitive ..!

Wire wound low inductance is a must ..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

What do you think about series crossovers? Nothing beats the musicality of a first order series crossover.

Not a fan of series xovers myself and first order works well if you can control out of bandwidth distortion , odd order is a good choice for some ..!


Regards

 

[DasguteOhr]

Prolly using the number of series traces to increase impedance for attenuation ..!

Resistors do affect the quality of sound to the very sensitive ribbon traces , ribbons tend to be resistance and inductance sensitive ..!

Wire wound low inductance is a must ..!

On the contrary, ribbons have a very large capacitance which puts a lot of strain on an amplifier in terms of phase angle. Amplifiers with a tendency to oscillate do not like ribbon speakers. An autoformer in front of the ribbon changes the phase. Try it out, listen and then judge.
P.S ribbons need a transformer to get voltage in high current

 

[Audiohertz2]

On the contrary, ribbons have a very large capacitance which puts a lot of strain on an amplifier in terms of phase angle. Amplifiers with a tendency to oscillate do not like ribbon speakers. An autoformer in front of the ribbon changes the phase. Try it out, listen and then judge.
P.S ribbons need a transformer to get voltage in high current

You should measure one and show us the magnitude and Phase would love to see those high phase angles ..



Putting an autoformer in front of one is junk IMO..

 

[thedudeabides]

Putting an autoformer in front of one is junk IMO.

You seem to be very confident and knowlegable about hi end audio in general as well as speaker / crossover designs. Are you a manufacturer of these type products or just a serious hobbyist with an ee background? Best.

 

[Audiohertz2]

You seem to be very confident and knowlegable about hi end audio in general as well as speaker / crossover designs. Are you a manufacturer of these type products or just a serious hobbyist with an ee background? Best.

Very Confident and Knowledgable , but humble enuff to let Ked and others take the lead while i watch from the back of the class ..


Regards

 

[thedudeabides]

Sorry I asked. I am so tired of the mind games some members seem to enjoy playing with others on this forum. I do not understand it and do not want to. Lots of innuendo, egos, one upmanship and gotchas. How utterly immature and childish. Have fun kiddos.

 

[DasguteOhr]

You should measure one and show us the magnitude and Phase would love to see those high phase angles ..



Putting an autoformer in front of one is junk IMO..

I think we're talking about two different things. An acoustic phase has nothing to do with the (phase position) load of the amp. With the active crossover, you no longer need any passive crossover (components). Nowadays, this is done via Roon with Audiovolver, for example. You can easily correct the phase with it. Grimm or Fink Audio do this, which, as far as I know, sounds pretty good.
A autoformer is really good as a replacement for a resistor in a passive xover.
I had not read that an active cover is used for the loudspeaker.That's the end of the matter for me.
Artilce in german

Vorreiter Fink Team: Lautsprecher-Phasenkorrektur per Roon - LowBeats

Mitunter braucht's günstige Umstände, damit echter Fortschritt möglich wird. Ein solcher bahnt sich

www.lowbeats.de

 

[morricab]

On the contrary, ribbons have a very large capacitance which puts a lot of strain on an amplifier in terms of phase angle. Amplifiers with a tendency to oscillate do not like ribbon speakers. An autoformer in front of the ribbon changes the phase. Try it out, listen and then judge.
P.S ribbons need a transformer to get voltage in high current

Sorry, you are thinking about electrostatic speakers, which are mainly capacitive. Flat Ribbons are essentially pure resistance and very easy loads for amplifiers.

 

[morricab]

 

[DasguteOhr]

View attachment 128141

Electrically speaking, a ribbon is an unwound capacitor with voltage applied to its ends. A transformer is connected in front of it so that an amplifier can drive it at all. It depends on how well the inductive load (transformer) compensates for the ribbon (capacitive load). Otherwise you have reactive current as a load for the amplifier. This means that you destroy the amplifier's usable power. In your diagram it looks like it works quite well, but it's not always like that. Old Apogee speakers were always considered a difficult load to drive. You need stable amplifiers such as T&A 3000 mono amps,or sac" the amplifer" stable up to 0.5 ohms. Actually, the last one mentioned was short-circuit proof. They only wrote 0.5 ohm on it so that nobody use as welding machine at home.

 

[morricab]

Electrically speaking, a ribbon is an unwound capacitor with voltage applied to its ends. A transformer is connected in front of it so that an amplifier can drive it at all. It depends on how well the inductive load (transformer) compensates for the ribbon (capacitive load). Otherwise you have reactive current as a load for the amplifier. This means that you destroy the amplifier's usable power. In your diagram it looks like it works quite well, but it's not always like that. Old Apogee speakers were always considered a difficult load to drive. You need stable amplifiers such as T&A 3000 mono amps,or sac" the amplifer" stable up to 0.5 ohms. Actually, the last one mentioned was short-circuit proof. They only wrote 0.5 ohm on it so that nobody use as welding machine at home. View attachment 128147

A short piece of straight ribbon has almost no reactance (capacitance or inductance) at all...the winding is what makes it inductive (for an inductor or transformer) or capacitive (if wound with sheets of dielectric). A straight ribbon is purely resistive...but has a very low resistance. What made Apogess hard to drive was a low resistance...and even this was made a lot easier with later generations. Only the Full Range used transformers. The Scintilla was a 1 ohm speaker because it didn't use transformers and that is what made it hard to drive...not because it had a high capacitance and/or phase angles. Later Apogees were all above about 3 ohms. The way that they got the resistance up was by making the traces on the mylar film run like a snake, going up and down several times, while remaining flat to increase the path length greatly. There is no coiling or whatever you think. The only reactance in the system was the crossover elements.

As you can see from the plot above, the Apogee Stage had a pretty flat 3-4 ohm resistance and relatively low phase shift...nothing highly capacitive or inductive going on there.

Look, you seem very confused about this but I know you have good technical competence...sit down and have a think about it before you post again.

Electrostats have high capacitance and are known to make some marginally stable amps oscillate. I know this from firsthand experience when my Transcendent Sound OTLs oscillated like mad on my Acoustats....I rushed to shutdown to prevent meltdown.

 

[Audiohertz2]

In actuality the flat impedance of a ribbon with low C/I is due to the very low BL factor of the drive system , or so it’s thought in some circles

Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

I think we're talking about two different things. An acoustic phase has nothing to do with the (phase position) load of the amp. With the active crossover, you no longer need any passive crossover (components). Nowadays, this is done via Roon with Audiovolver, for example. You can easily correct the phase with it. Grimm or Fink Audio do this, which, as far as I know, sounds pretty good.
A autoformer is really good as a replacement for a resistor in a passive xover.
I had not read that an active cover is used for the loudspeaker.That's the end of the matter for me.
Artilce in german

Vorreiter Fink Team: Lautsprecher-Phasenkorrektur per Roon - LowBeats

Mitunter braucht's günstige Umstände, damit echter Fortschritt möglich wird. Ein solcher bahnt sich

www.lowbeats.de

Acoustic Phase , you lost me there we are discussing electrical phase inherent in any drive system , you do realize phase is an relationship has nothing to do with XOver choice ..


Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

A short piece of straight ribbon has almost no reactance (capacitance or inductance) at all...the winding is what makes it inductive (for an inductor or transformer) or capacitive (if wound with sheets of dielectric). A straight ribbon is purely resistive...but has a very low resistance. What made Apogess hard to drive was a low resistance...and even this was made a lot easier with later generations. Only the Full Range used transformers. The Scintilla was a 1 ohm speaker because it didn't use transformers and that is what made it hard to drive...not because it had a high capacitance and/or phase angles. Later Apogees were all above about 3 ohms. The way that they got the resistance up was by making the traces on the mylar film run like a snake, going up and down several times, while remaining flat to increase the path length greatly. There is no coiling or whatever you think. The only reactance in the system was the crossover elements.

As you can see from the plot above, the Apogee Stage had a pretty flat 3-4 ohm resistance and relatively low phase shift...nothing highly capacitive or inductive going on there.

Look, you seem very confused about this but I know you have good technical competence...sit down and have a think about it before you post again.

Electrostats have high capacitance and are known to make some marginally stable amps oscillate. I know this from firsthand experience when my Transcendent Sound OTLs oscillated like mad on my Acoustats....I rushed to shutdown to prevent meltdown.

Plenty amplfiers ring like a bell on ESL’s , its one of the reasons you no longer see these tests being done in reviews. JA for eg uses the easiest of squarewave measurements not to shame the needy ..


Regards