D'Agostino Monos vs Pass xa160.5

[mbovaird]

Hi all - I'm currently running the Pass xa160.5's with my ARC REF10 on my SF Stradivari's. The sound is excellent. But the D'Agostino amps have really caught my eye. Has anyone compared (even by memory) the Pass xa monos to the D'Agostino monos? Basically, I am trying to find out if its worth the upgrade. What are the major differences? Is it a good match for the rest of my gear? Thanks all!

Thanks,
Mike.

 

[LL21]

Hi mbovaird,

I have never heard Pass XA...but as a former owner of Strads...i researched amps very heavily and recall that Pass were one of the more highly recommended matches with your mighty speakers. I am going to take a self-admitted guess on where i think the Momentums come out matched with Strad, having tried a few matches myself from tubes to SS to Class A SS. The Momentums are as grainless an amp as i have ever heard...the treble is very, very finely woven. I have heard both the stereo and the monos. I have heard them with SF and with Wilson, though not specifically with your Strads which were not avail in the demo room where i pretty much do 90% of my dems.

I am going to guess that this might be an area where the Momentums have an opportunity to shine with your tweeter...and shine more than most amps, and that might include your Pass's...i cannot say...i can say its more grainless than just about any other amp i've heard save 2 (Boulder 2060 and Gryphon Colosseum), and i walked away with the impression its more nuanced than 1 of those 2 (Boulder).

Depending on your source, the Momentums mids may be 'more true to source' than what i have read about Pass' which have a wonderful warmth (the way my CJ amp and my Gryphon Antileon did)...but they are true to source in a very pure way without any sense of sterility. That said, some like a touch of warmth...so that's a personal call...i thought the Momentums sounded great. Between stereo and mono...i somehow felt mono in the same system felt more 'linear'...the stereo a touch warmer. The grip was tighter with monos across the spectrum but i could see a preference for the ever so slightly more cuddly feel of the stereo (i did).

In bass, i somehow am not convinced the Momentums have the all out grunt of the older Krell models...i would need to do more listening to come to a firmer conclusion on this...And i recall that the Strads really sit up and take note when a serious muscle amp gets locked on. And they do so beautifullly...the Pass's i suspect have that sheer power. I am sure the Momentums have grip, power, bass...but as much as your 160.5s? From what i have been told when i asked about my Strads...and what i've observed on Momentums...tough call to be honest. Pass might take this in pure power/grunt, though i suspect the bass you would get from Momentum will be solid, and highly, highly articulate.

I was holding back on posting hoping other more experienced people would have posted, but seeing as there have been none, thought i would share some observations and suggestions. Good luck. Enjoy what sounds like an amazing system already.

 

[mbovaird]

Lloyd - thank you for your thoughts. I am completely torn at this moment. I love the Strad/REF10/Pass xa160.5/Emm Labs DAC2X combo. Its magical. But, you know how it is.....we are always seeking "better". Damn human nature!

Mike

 

[LL21]

Always striving for better is no bad thing...its whether you are also happy with what you have. There is a difference, subtle perhaps but important. You have a system that appears very well thought out...balanced ARC Ref 10 into Pass into SF Strads is an incredibly good combination without doubt. Have you considered going Pass XS? You will likely maintain the tonal balance that you appear to like...and probably get further grainless, quieter/lower noise floor, greater delineation, etc...just a thought.

 

[Bruce B]

Don't think you'll get much better than the XA160 unless going to the XS as Lloyd stated. If I were in your shoes, I'd get the Pass XP-30 and 25 (if you have a TT) instead of trying to mix/match things.

 

[LL21]

Don't think you'll get much better than the XA160 unless going to the XS as Lloyd stated. If I were in your shoes, I'd get the Pass XP-30 and 25 (if you have a TT) instead of trying to mix/match things.

I am going to guess that mbovaird is reluctant to give up his Ref10...cannot say i can blame him on that score. i have hear nothing but superlatives about the REf10. i take your point about system matching...but i could see the reluctance to let that go...and while i have heard good things about ARC and Strads...they have never ranked up in the top 5 of recommendations on any list/post i ever recall seeing...and i spent months looking thru everything online i could find.

 

[mbovaird]

I went through several preamps (Mc c1000c/t/p, Classe cp800 and others) before finding gold with the REF 10. It's the best preamp
I've ever had in my system or ever heard. As it continues to break in, I remain incredibly impressed. I'd be happy to share my findings in detail.

I love my pass amps, but I have two complaints. First, they are super hot and heat up my room fast. Second, they present the soundstage as a whole rather than individual parts. I like that - but would like a little more definition and spacing around the instruments.

I was hoping the D'Agostino amps would give me this definition.

No? Is the REF 250 a better bet for me?

 

[LL21]

I went through several preamps (Mc c1000c/t/p, Classe cp800 and others) before finding gold with the REF 10. It's the best preamp
I've ever had in my system or ever heard. As it continues to break in, I remain incredibly impressed. I'd be happy to share my findings in detail.

I love my pass amps, but I have two complaints. First, they are super hot and heat up my room fast. Second, they present the soundstage as a whole rather than individual parts. I like that - but would like a little more definition and spacing around the instruments.

I was hoping the D'Agostino amps would give me this definition.

No? Is the REF 250 a better bet for me?

Just curious...what is your source and your cables?

 

[rockitman]

If the 160's overheat your room, forget about the pass XS series. They run considerably hotter and have double the area of heat sinks vs. the 160's. The class a/b dag's will run a lot cooler as is the case with a/ b amps.

 

[mbovaird]

Source is EMM Labs DAC2X with a new(ish) Mac mini running Audirvana via a Wireworld Platinum USB cable. All cables are Wireworld Eclipse 6.

 

[microstrip]

I went through several preamps (Mc c1000c/t/p, Classe cp800 and others) before finding gold with the REF 10. It's the best preamp
I've ever had in my system or ever heard. As it continues to break in, I remain incredibly impressed. I'd be happy to share my findings in detail.

I love my pass amps, but I have two complaints. First, they are super hot and heat up my room fast. Second, they present the soundstage as a whole rather than individual parts. I like that - but would like a little more definition and spacing around the instruments.

I was hoping the D'Agostino amps would give me this definition.

No? Is the REF 250 a better bet for me?

What are the dimensions from your room? The Stradivari do not have pin point definition - images are large and they sound clear, but I missed the defined imaging of the ESL63 when I moved to the Stradivari. The REF40 (and I assume the REF10) create a very defined image because the treble is very clear and airy and the space is created by the great bass delineation and control - unusual for a tube preamplifier.

 

[mbovaird]

What are the dimensions from your room? The Stradivari do not have pin point definition - images are large and they sound clear, but I missed the defined imaging of the ESL63 when I moved to the Stradivari. The REF40 (and I assume the REF10) create a very defined image because the treble is very clear and airy and the space is created by the great bass delineation and control - unusual for a tube preamplifier.

My room is 15 wide by 31 deep. I completely agree with you on the ARC preamp. It's glorious.

Mike

 

[LL21]

What are the dimensions from your room? The Stradivari do not have pin point definition - images are large and they sound clear, but I missed the defined imaging of the ESL63 when I moved to the Stradivari. The REF40 (and I assume the REF10) create a very defined image because the treble is very clear and airy and the space is created by the great bass delineation and control - unusual for a tube preamplifier.

Source is EMM Labs DAC2X with a new(ish) Mac mini running Audirvana via a Wireworld Platinum USB cable. All cables are Wireworld Eclipse 6.

Hi mbovaird. Well, you've got a great source...i cannot speak to Wireworld as i have not heard it. I do agree with Microstrip that the Strads present a whole soundstage...which for many including you it seems...is a good thing. In terms of the 'detailing around each instrument'...I never found the Strads as intimately precise as other speakers i have heard...but i also might think a different amp could contribute to take the Strads quite far down that path. Farther than your current Pass? Maybe...and yes, that is possibly where the Momentums might be "superior" for what you seek in that one particular area. Whether you will like the other changes i cannot say...i would not be suprised if the sound was quite special. You could possibly try different cables...take an extreme...Valhalla or Odin. I suspect you could well find a form of definition comes thru as a result.

 

[mbovaird]

Hi mbovaird. Well, you've got a great source...i cannot speak to Wireworld as i have not heard it. I do agree with Microstrip that the Strads present a whole soundstage...which for many including you it seems...is a good thing. In terms of the 'detailing around each instrument'...I never found the Strads as intimately precise as other speakers i have heard...but i also might think a different amp could contribute to take the Strads quite far down that path. Farther than your current Pass? Maybe...and yes, that is possibly where the Momentums might be "superior" for what you seek in that one particular area. Whether you will like the other changes i cannot say...i would not be suprised if the sound was quite special. You could possibly try different cables...take an extreme...Valhalla or Odin. I suspect you could well find a form of definition comes thru as a result.

Whenever I lug my Classe CA-2300 amp upstairs to test with new components, it's excels in spades in this area (detailing the instruments with more of defined space). It falls a little short in other areas (sound stage width, etc), but it's a ridiculously fast amp (this alone is quite intoxicating) and its provides better definition. BUT, it isn't as overall musical as the Pass, nor does it have the same level of tonality and richness and glorious midrange as other amps. But the point is, I know it's achievable (to my satisfaction with my Strads), but at what cost? What do I give up to achieve this?

A friend of mine thinks the little Dart stereo amp (108 I think it's called) would be better on the Strads. Don't know. I'm afraid with the D'Agostino amps I would give up some of that glorious midrange. The reviews I've read rarely discuss it as a key sonic character.

I can demo the D'ags at a dealer if I'm prepared to do the 8 hours of driving. It's on Wilson speakers - which I've never been a fan of....so I just don't think that's the best way to demo them....But, I might do it anyway....

Mike

 

[XV-1]

Whenever I lug my Classe CA-2300 amp upstairs to test with new components, it's excels in spades in this area (detailing the instruments with more of defined space). It falls a little short in other areas (sound stage width, etc), but it's a ridiculously fast amp (this alone is quite intoxicating) and its provides better definition. BUT, it isn't as overall musical as the Pass, nor does it have the same level of tonality and richness and glorious midrange as other amps. But the point is, I know it's achievable (to my satisfaction with my Strads), but at what cost? What do I give up to achieve this?

A friend of mine thinks the little Dart stereo amp (108 I think it's called) would be better on the Strads. Don't know. I'm afraid with the D'Agostino amps I would give up some of that glorious midrange. The reviews I've read rarely discuss it as a key sonic character.

I can demo the D'ags at a dealer if I'm prepared to do the 8 hours of driving. It's on Wilson speakers - which I've never been a fan of....so I just don't think that's the best way to demo them....But, I might do it anyway....

Mike

The Momentum definitely will not give up any glorious midrange. It's midrange is superb and will let the Strads sing and breathe easier IMO. There is nothing mechanical whatsoever with the Momentum, only pure musical delivery.

 

[mbovaird]

The Momentum definitely will not give up any glorious midrange. It's midrange is superb and will let the Strads sing and breathe easier IMO. There is nothing mechanical whatsoever with the Momentum, only pure musical delivery.

That's music to my ears! Thanks.

 

[jeromelang]

How often does the pass lab XA160 gets powered off (completely via the switch at the rear)?

 

[mbovaird]

How often does the pass lab XA160 gets powered off (completely via the switch at the rear)?

Never. Why my friend do you ask? The little blue light stays on all the time.

 

[rockitman]

How often does the pass lab XA160 gets powered off (completely via the switch at the rear)?

That switch should never be turned off unless your changing wires or moving the amp.