Direct-to-Disc

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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#41
Rattle at Barbican yesterday. He is going so fast as if he wants to get it over within the hour. At Barbican itself with the same orchestra Haitink and MTT were so much better.

He did give a small talk where he said this is the toughest symphony to conduct, and then Fidelio and Missa Solemnis as well.


Many thanks Ked, I think the under an hour for the symphony thing relates to overtime bans for the band.

Great to see you getting into it. That’s definitely not music for the uninvolved. You Londoners get the best.
 

bonzo75

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#42
Many thanks Ked, I think the under an hour for the symphony thing relates to overtime bans for the band.

Great to see you getting into it. That’s definitely not music for the uninvolved. You Londoners get the best.
The phone is always on my lap. It points anywhere. On these two it was under my chin
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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#43
The lights in the ceiling shot was a nice thing and a good abstract backdrop to the music. Love these videos as snippets of live music across the world and in the great halls. When you see really produced recordings of live concerts there is always a bit of distance created by the production. These wild reels from just a single point smart phone are much more connected to the human experience.
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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#44
Those Bonzo-Vids are a big WOW! even through the cell phone.
 

bonzo75

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#46
Those Bonzo-Vids are a big WOW! even through the cell phone.
On these videos you can easily make out the superior acoustics of the Sheldonian, and if you think of these as hifi systems, you easily see superior tone, dynamic range, flow, bass, lack of space boundaries, bass, and detail as compared to other systems. Some of these aspects similarly feed through videos across systems. Some don't. Therefore when they are accompanied by the description of the system, having both words and videos as guide makes it easier to relate to.

Unfortunately those against videos take it in black and white on how can you use a cellphone microphone to judge a system, which is very flawed logic and shows lack of understanding of what the videos are trying to do. And yes, those who like videos are also guilty of sometimes using it on an absolute basis to judge sound leading to an error in judgment. But it is very difficult to get audiophiles to appreciate the other side of what they think they already know
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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#47
The cell phone can create a kind of 'fill in the blanks' ethos for general luster and dynamics. Second hand, you could tell something impressive was going on.
 

bonzo75

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#48
The cell phone can create a kind of 'fill in the blanks' ethos for general luster and dynamics. Second hand, you could tell something impressive was going on.
Much more, but the thing is you cannot generalize, so if you shoot videos of what you are listening to, some systems or components description can be conveyed more easily via videos than others. The ones which convey should be used, while the ones that don't shouldn't. But in audio people who don't try always know more
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Switzerland
#49
Much more, but the thing is you cannot generalize, so if you shoot videos of what you are listening to, some systems or components description can be conveyed more easily via videos than others. The ones which convey should be used, while the ones that don't shouldn't. But in audio people who don't try always know more
I have found my cellphone doesn’t remotely capture the bass or overall energy generated in either live or played back settings (IPhone 7). That is why I run around Munich with my Tascam...it is also “direct to disc” ...
 

bonzo75

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#50
I have found my cellphone doesn’t remotely capture the bass or overall energy generated in either live or played back settings (IPhone 7). That is why I run around Munich with my Tascam...it is also “direct to disc” ...
It has to capture it on a relative basis.

The problem I have with Tascam is that it loses the room ambience
 
May 30, 2010
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#51
The cell phone can create a kind of 'fill in the blanks' ethos for general luster and dynamics. Second hand, you could tell something impressive was going on.
Yes, once you add the visual stimulus everything is possible. Stereo is an illusion ...
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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#52
Yes, once you add the visual stimulus everything is possible. Stereo is an illusion ...
But the whole of reproduced playback is an illusion, not just the notion of stereo separation. It is all illusory but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t valuable. All life is potentially Maya but we can enjoy and learn off of it if we understand that.
 
May 30, 2010
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#53
But the whole of reproduced playback is an illusion, not just the notion of stereo separation. It is all illusory but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t valuable. All life is potentially Maya but we can enjoy and learn off of it if we understand that.
Exactly my point. We can learn a lot about it if we do understand the technicalities and the psychoacoustic why's of the stereo system. BTW, stereo sound reproduction is much more than just separation.

Back to the main subject, many people refer they prefer direct to disc to tape sourced vinyl. Surely there are reasons behind this preference, this is an interesting thread.
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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#54
Exactly my point. We can learn a lot about it if we do understand the technicalities and the psychoacoustic why's of the stereo system. BTW, stereo sound reproduction is much more than just separation.

Back to the main subject, many people refer they prefer direct to disc to tape sourced vinyl. Surely there are reasons behind this preference, this is an interesting thread.
Would love to learn off what you are posting. I’m intrigued... count me in if you ever care to elaborate.
 
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#55
Would love to learn off what you are posting. I’m intrigued... count me in if you ever care to elaborate.
Direct to disc recording needs a different way of making recordings and perform - the first question should be are people preferring these aspects or the absence of the tape link?

I have asked for a list of preferred DtoD recordings - unless we have a few significant examples to analyze I think we will not go anyway.
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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#56
Direct to disc recording needs a different way of making recordings and perform - the first question should be are people preferring these aspects or the absence of the tape link?

I have asked for a list of preferred DtoD recordings - unless we have a few significant examples to analyze I think we will not go anyway.
So what is it about the impacts of stereo reproduction (as a technique) that is then especially relevant to the recording chain be it direct to disc or otherwise. You often refer to the stereo approach as being an illusion like some kind of end statement (and did so again) but I still hold that all of musical reproduction is inherently an illusion so why differentiate? It is all building to an experience and all of it is inherently synthetic whether it is stereo, mono or multi-channel but that is just the way of it. The true art is when the synthetic seems natural... but that is just a summative assessment for those who feel that is valuable. Direct to disc could simply feel less synthetic because it could be one simple step less removed from the truth.
 
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bonzo75

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#57
I think Ron needs to add no. 5 to his list of start objectives, to create stereo reproduction.
 
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the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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#58
Strangely it’s the horns and SET combo here that are happiest playing both the old and the new, both mono and stereo. They let me know the difference between any recordings but then just don’t let that difference get in the way of a musical connection. Marvellous and a bit magical and always musical.
 
May 30, 2010
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#59
So what is it about the impacts of stereo reproduction (as a technique) that is then especially relevant to the recording chain be it direct to disc or otherwise. You often refer to the stereo approach as being an illusion like some kind of end statement (and did so again) but I still hold that all of musical reproduction is inherently an illusion so why differentiate? It is all building to an experience and all of it is inherently synthetic whether it is stereo, mono or multi-channel but that is just the way of it. The true art is when the synthetic seems natural... but that is just a summative assessment for those who feel that is valuable. Direct to disc could simply feel less synthetic because it could be one simple step less removed from the truth.
Yes, it could ... The removing steps theory is fascinating, but was never proved.

I find the DtoD I own (mainly Sheffield) excellent recordings, very enjoyable, but not particularly realistic. Impressive, but lacking tension and drama when compared with by my best tape sourced LP's or digital recordings. Is this due to the stress and conditioning imposed by the strict requirement of avoiding overload in the uninterrupted session? Are these exact conditions that make them highly enjoyable and a great source of listening pleasure?

Remember that stereo sound reproduction is not an intrinsically natural process - the engineers play with all kind of techniques to recreate our perception of the event. IMHO if people want top natural they should go in binaural.
 
May 30, 2010
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#60
Rattle at Barbican yesterday. He is going so fast as if he wants to get it over within the hour. At Barbican itself with the same orchestra Haitink and MTT were so much better.

He did give a small talk where he said this is the toughest symphony to conduct, and then Fidelio and Missa Solemnis as well. (...)
Rattle choice of tempos has been addressed several times in the classical music magazine Gramophone, I remember an interview with him explaining his reasons and the sources he used for his choices. I am happy that his version of Mahler 5th Adagietto runs faster than on the Visconti movie ...
 
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