Do high end Focals have a weird sonic signature?

[KeithR]

I would have to agree with Tim that the top end has been a bit bright historically with the Be tweets.

I used to think the old Utopia version wasn't too bad---although usually paired with warm tubes.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I am reluctantly posting in this thread.

The title is provocative. I am surprised it elicited so many replies. "Weird" being a very difficult to define sonic signature and such a blanket statement on a whole line of highly successful line of speakers is rather surprising to me.

This said, I can't begin to understand the negative toward JM Lab.. for all that I have heard from them they sound extremely good on all kind of music and are sonically very close to Wilson. Of all the speakers I have heard Focal are the sonic cousins to Wilson .. And I would think the OP likes Wilson .. so ...

 

[microstrip]

( ...) The title is provocative. I am surprised it elicited so many replies. "Weird" being a very difficult to define sonic signature and such a blanket statement on a whole line of highly successful line of speakers is rather surprising to me.

I have to agree with you. Unfortunately many of the titles of WBF threads are so provocative that they manage to restrain an healthy exchange of opinions debate on the equipment being discussed, as anyone wanting to participate needs to express an opinion about the title thread.

And yes, high end Focal's are great speakers and represent excellent value for money in Europe.

 

[sly30]

I would have to agree with Tim that the top end has been a bit bright historically with the Be tweets.

I used to think the old Utopia version wasn't too bad---although usually paired with warm tubes.

In my system Grande Utopia sounds...dark!! More dark than TAD Reference One or Dynaudio Evidence.

 

[Bruce B]

Hi. Of all the speakers I have heard Focal are the sonic cousins to Wilson .. And I would think the OP likes Wilson .. so ...

I would tend to agree since I've had both. My W/P 7 and my Focal's were very similar in tonal character. Sound almost cut from the same cloth so to speak. The new Wilson's (XLF/Alexia) on the other hand sound nothing like my Focal's.

 

[Elias]

I have heard several different models of Focals, all $30K and up, in different setups, and they all sound very strange to me. They can sound good, but just not real to me. Is it just me, or do they sound very hi-fi to others as well?

Hi all,
Have Focal (utopia series III) their own sonic signature?
From my point of view, yes; The sound of the music.
I own a pair of Focal Grande Utopia EM and I have owned Apogee speakers, Martin Logan, B&W,Some Wilsons (From WP to Maxx 1 and 2), etc, and even being all of them good, from my ears Focal are more than good.
As everything extraordinary you have to be very careful with the pairing electronics and they are very sensitive to room conditions (even tiny changes make very different sound results in terms of naturality, soundstage, tonal balance, etc).
Take them in a good room, set them as they need (it is not easy and takes long time, at least from my experience), feed them with the right (very neutral and lineal) electronics and you will be able to listen to and feel the sound and soul of the music. They will show not more or less than the music conteined in the discs (LP, CD/SACD, HR Files, etc). They are very transparent to source, not pretending to show more info to seem/feigh more revealing (as other brands do), just how the instruments sound in a acoustic environment without exageranting anything.
If this is what you are looking for they could be your end of the journey (among other good brands/speakers).
This is my conclusion (let´s highlight "my") after 30 years loving the music (not the gear).
Best,
Elías.

 

[defride]

Amoungst the guys I know Focal really split opinion, so many times those demonstrating the brand tend toward the lean and bright with their setups. I remember being mighty disappointed with a dCS Paganini/Berning Quadrature/Focal Scala setup with more spent on the MIT cable loom than the electronics, detailed, lean and utterly unmusical. Having said that I've heard some great setup's Clearaudio Innovation/Levinson 53/not sure the pre, prob Levinson/Maestro springs to mind.

One area that I've noticed in the midrange Focals 10.. series and inc Scala that I regard as odd is a tendency in some systems for a percussion sound you're expecting to come as a ...thock... to sound more like a ...tock... what gives, don't know but it's been a consistant characteristic IME

 

[BruceD]

Hmmm-Dave Wilson used a Tube trap filled with lead shot in the magnet of the Watt Focal Tweet--- does Focal use this themselves?

BD

 

[Elias]

The tweet Focal is using in the utopia III range is different. It is an Beryllium IAL2 (Infinite Acoustic Loading Tweeter). The driver is opperating loaded in a tuned cavity. The rear part of the tweeter is open enabling them to maintain an extremely low moving mass and push the response down getting lower frequency extension and reduce the resonant frequency.

 

[Elias]

You know...this is one of the good things about this hobby...the diversity of oppinions. I do not know about the room conditions where you used to listen to focals, the synergy with the rest of the gear (not just the electronic since Grande´s are very critical with all of the gear before them).
From my point of view the last utopia series are very neutral, accuracy, and transparent, with remarkable density and the glowing luminescence it throws onto the instruments is not remotely thin or diluted as a result.
As commented they are very demanding when it comes to matching electronics and room set ups.
Regarding the midrange, just let me write some ideas and then a personal conclusion. The drivers Focal are using have a very good quality (recognized as one of the best worldwide), the crossover just filter, this is just a pure filter (not altering the original signal anyway), due to those drivers ( cone, spiders, surrounds, voice coil length, materials, cone thickness) are developed each one of them for an specific speaker (this is one of the Focal´s advantage, they develop everything) the integration is exemplary, and last but not least, the cabinets 3D vibration cartographies have then guided the designing of the woofer and mid-bass cabinets in order to optimize their behavior in the vibration plan and the parasite radiation. Even the wires has been expressily choosen for this speaker in order to maximize the performance!.
With all of this in mind it seems very extrange they are going to show something that there is not contained in the discs/files...the rest, from my point of view is a matter of taste (which, repeat, is good since each one of as are different, perceive things in a different way, etc).
50% of the final sonic experience is due to room conditions...look at this, maybe there is the reasons behind your impressions (it is just an idea).

 

[Rocco I.]

I use Focal Grand Utopia III EM and....for me it is the best and no other speakers are even close but....
most presentations which i heard before and later was bad or very bad....why?

Speakers needs about 1000h playing to full warm up. At shows there are new speakers or demos which has 100-300h playing time
or even not!! They can not sound good.
At rear wall there are set ups of drivers. Tweeter can has -,0,+ level and the same 3 positions of Slope.
In my both are minus.
Speakers are very sensitive of room acoustic. I had to make profi acoustic adaptations.

My speakers plays with top burmester pre 077+external power supply+2x 911mk3 factory monoblocks.
This set is not sensitive for interconects but very sensitive for power cables.
With Acrolinks or Siltechs sounds to sharp but with Anacondas Z-Trons sounds great, soft, velvet.
Speaker cable are MIT Oracle MA-X SHD and source is top Metronome set.
NO any silver cables.

If anywhere Grand Utopia with Burmester sound bad means that speakers were not warm up, wrong adjustable at rear wall of speaker, bad acoustic
of room.
But some people like other kind of sound.
It is not boring sound like Tannoy or some other speakers.
Focals sound deep with great bass, great body and feeling of music.
Some likes steaks, some fishes, some pizza. That's live

Congrats for your nice system.

With the Speaker cable MIT Oracle MA-X SHD you're "killing" the fantastic and natural power (read, damping factor) of your awesome Burmester 911's monos. If possible, try a different speaker cable (not Mit or Transparent) and listen.

 

[Elias]

I am using Atlas Asimi cables (pure silver), and they works perfectly with the Focals (I think? focal uses silver cables internally for the Utopia III series)

 

[Rocco I.]

I am using Atlas Asimi cables (pure silver), and they works perfectly with the Focals (I think? focal uses silver cables internally for the Utopia III series)

Elias,

your Focal's are drived by Burmester amp?

p.s.: I like also so much the sound of Focal Utopia too

 

[Elias]

Rocco,
My Grande Utopia EM are being driven by a couple of Mcintosh MC 2301 (300w tube power amps). They are really neutral and lineal, and from my point of view they make a good "marriage" with Focal.
The final sound is extremely good, even too neutral!! that´s why some people could feel in some short listenings that they are dead!!.
Right, they are not a "big, bang, chim, punp, boom" speakers. They like the music and are very smooth with it.
If you want to listen to the last "chimmmm" even in an unnatural way...there are other speakers capable of given this...The grandes are very transparent to source and are not going to force any frequency in order to seems more revealing...This is my thought.
What do you thing on that?
Best
Elías.

 

[Rocco I.]

Rocco,
My Grande Utopia EM are being driven by a couple of Mcintosh MC 2301 (300w tube power amps). They are really neutral and lineal, and from my point of view they make a good "marriage" with Focal.
The final sound is extremely good, even too neutral!! that´s why some people could feel in some short listenings that they are dead!!.
Right, they are not a "big, bang, chim, punp, boom" speakers. They like the music and are very smooth with it.
If you want to listen to the last "chimmmm" even in an unnatural way...there are other speakers capable of given this...The grandes are very transparent to source and are not going to force any frequency in order to seems more revealing...This is my thought.
What do you thing on that?
Best
Elías.

Elia,

first of all congrats for your impressive set-up. I listened the Mcintosh MC 2301 but with different speakers and never with Focal. I've experienced the listening of top Focal Utopia with Burmester 911 Mk3 monos (with preamp 011), Vitus ss-101 (with preamp SL-101), Soulution 701 mono (with preamp 720/721) and the cd player was always the DCS Paganini 3 box. The sound of Focal's even driving from different amps and each one with own musical properties, the overall performance of Focal Utopia was always alive and with correct timbre and balance.

 

[microstrip]

I am sure Focal lovers will appreciate this impressive system. Although my experience was mainly with the previous model, the Grande Utopia Be, I can assure that they sounded really great with cj. Besides, as we have now very active threads on Shunyata cabling, I think the interest will be double.

http://www.aca.gr/index/hiend/hiendArticles?row=1372

 

[LL21]

I am sure Focal lovers will appreciate this impressive system. Although my experience was mainly with the previous model, the Grande Utopia Be, I can assure that they sounded really great with cj. Besides, as we have now very active threads on Shunyata cabling, I think the interest will be double.

http://www.aca.gr/index/hiend/hiendArticles?row=1372

Hi Micro...trying to figure out the electronics...2 sets of CJ ART monos? 1 CJ ART preamp, CJ phono, what else?

 

[microstrip]

Hi Micro...trying to figure out the electronics...2 sets of CJ ART monos? 1 CJ ART preamp, CJ phono, what else?

You are missing the (x2): Conrad-Johnson Evolution 2000 - probably for bass. The complete list can be found at the bottom of the page referred in the link.

 

[LL21]

You are missing the (x2): Conrad-Johnson Evolution 2000 - probably for bass. The complete list can be found at the bottom of the page referred in the link.

thanks!