Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[spiritofmusic]

I removed all of the Stillpoints gradually until I only had the 8 under my speakers. When my friend Marty was here 3 weeks ago we removed the final 8 and put the Wilson spikes back under the speakers. The sound for my ears Peter was that "natural" sound that I was chasing. It is interesting to reverse the experiment and remove the Stillpoints gradually from under each component. It is the old a analogy of going down that rabbit hole and after so many turns you forget where you were. It was quite a revelation and learning experience for me.

Gosh Steve, I know it's a weird thing to say, but you've been quite brave in doing this. The SPs maffia are pretty vocal, and I'll bet you've had some raised eyebrows from them at the very least.
Have to concur w/Bonzo, I find they added a certain leading edge enhancement to my sound that was initially v. attractive, but by the end of the demo, was a tad fatigueing. Passed on buying a set.
Shun Mooks otoh just sold themselves within 5 mins, and they only maintain their hold on me. And this is just a set of Giants under my 200lb balanced transformer!
Looking fwd to "Mooking" more of my system.
Steve, if you're looking for more timbral integrity, enhancing the natural tone of your sound, and a kind of holistic togetherness, you're doing y'self a major disservice not considering them.
But maybe you first just need a little time decompressing from all that energy the SPs were enhancing.

 

[Steve Williams]

Gosh Steve, I know it's a weird thing to say, but you've been quite brave in doing this. The SPs maffia are pretty vocal, and I'll bet you've had some raised eyebrows from them at the very least.
Have to concur w/Bonzo, I find they added a certain leading edge enhancement to my sound that was initially v. attractive, but by the end of the demo, was a tad fatigueing. Passed on buying a set.
Shun Mooks otoh just sold themselves within 5 mins, and they only maintain their hold on me. And this is just a set of Giants under my 200lb balanced transformer!
Looking fwd to "Mooking" more of my system.
Steve, if you're looking for more timbral integrity, enhancing the natural tone of your sound, and a kind of holistic togetherness, you're doing y'self a major disservice not considering them.
But maybe you first just need a little time decompressing from all that energy the SPs were enhancing.

Thanks for the info and suggestion Marc but TBH I replaced them with CMS Racks and I am OK with the spikes back under my speakers. This isn't a matter of right or wrong, good or bad Marc as I have said they have benefit. It all boils down to "pick your flavor". Some people prefer them on and others are happy with what they have and don't use them. I've heard it both ways and in my system this is what I prefer

As for the SM to me it is just another tweak that almost certainly adds its own flavor as well.

I'm happy Marc. My system sounds good to my ears and with the help of several of my friends recently I have made some changes (or shall I call them return to OEM) which sound much better to my ears. No need for SP mafia Marc

 

[LL21]

He (David) doesn't like still points for the same reason I don't, they are not natural. Personally I find they do add to a clean sound but find the midrange dry and more digital like. He does like the mooks, when set up by the mook man himself

I concur and nearly killed myself trying to figure out how to keep the clarity while getting 'back' to the midrange purity/tonal quality and ease i have spent years finetuning. Eventually, i found Stillpoints Ultra 5s with HRS Nimbus Couplers got me there...truly the best of my 'old voice' with the newfound clarity...but there were about 24 long straight hours of trying to figure out that particular combination. Fortunately, its done and once done has not moved one millimeter in closing in 2 years.

 

[Steve Williams]

I concur and nearly killed myself trying to figure out how to keep the clarity while getting 'back' to the midrange purity/tonal quality and ease i have spent years finetuning. Eventually, i found Stillpoints Ultra 5s with HRS Nimbus Couplers got me there...truly the best of my 'old voice' with the newfound clarity...but there were about 24 long straight hours of trying to figure out that particular combination. Fortunately, its done and once done has not moved one millimeter in closing in 2 years.

LLoyd,

what I found is that removing all of the SP's for "me" got me back to that mid range purity and tonal quality that I was used to. The point is that sometimes a tweak will indeed provide something very beneficial but at the expense of something else and then you "need to add something else to fix that something else".....down the rabbit hole and always chasing your tail to the point where you just have no idea where you started at. Doing the experiment in reverse Lloyd might surprise you. It certainly did me

 

[MadFloyd]

He (David) doesn't like still points for the same reason I don't, they are not natural. Personally I find they do add to a clean sound but find the midrange dry and more digital like. He does like the mooks, when set up by the mook man himself

So one can like mooks and not Stillpoints? There's that much of a difference between them? Disclaimer: I've now finally become skeptical about any amount of hype since I've had no real positive experiences chasing any of it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, this needs a whole thread on it's own. The reverting to type of a system.
After "unravelling" the SPs are you planning to go 'back to nature' re cables (back to thrift shop bell wire), power (straight out of the wall, no dedicated lines) etc etc?

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, this needs a whole thread on it's own. The reverting to type of a system.
After "unravelling" the SPs are you planning to go 'back to nature' re cables (back to thrift shop bell wire), power (straight out of the wall, no dedicated lines) etc etc?

If I did all that Marc, I'd have to move

I can say this in all honesty that I am totally engaged with my system and am spending more time there than ever with no fatigue

 

[spiritofmusic]

That's great. It's not my intention to make any Realtors any wealthier!
But seriously, how did you analyse that it was the SPs that were possibly tilting your system balance?
Were you unhappy generally, and just tried removing some on a whim?
The reason I ask this is that some may have been tempted to instead remove a power cord eg, and replace w/stock.
But you didn't.
(Btw, thanx for your help on my tape thread, much obliged).

 

[Ron Resnick]

no fatigue

Even after listening to vinyl on Steve's system for four hours I experienced no fatigue whatsoever. I would have been happy to stay there listening all day and evening.

 

[DaveyF]

Tweaks, like everything else in this hobby can be beneficial or not. The problem is that in many instances, the realization of the negative can be a) long in coming and b) costly to the pocketbook. One thing that is for sure, many A'philes have made this mistake...it's an easy trap to fall into. Which is why I have a mantra, if I haven't heard something in my system and for an extended period of time, it's nothing but a curiosity to me in the meantime.
Btw, talking of tweaks under gear and speakers, the Harmonix pieces work wonders for me... I do suggest a listen to these, they are the definition of natural...or better still --a little assist in the 'reality' dept.

 

[Steve Williams]

I had a wonderful afternoon yesterday with about 40 music lovers at the invite of Bob Attiyeh from Yarlung Records for a live recording session of some new artists.Here was the invitation....

Yarlung executive producer J Schlichting joins me in inviting you for a live concert recording session in beautiful Samueli Hall at the Segerstrom Center for the Arts in Costa Mesa on November 3rd, at 1pm. Restricted to 40 guests (you will be sitting with the musicians, microphones and engineers in the recording space) so please rsvp as soon as convenient.

Repertoire includes James Matheson’s String Quartet with violinist Baird Dodge leading members and family from the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and the song cycle Times Alone, with New York musicians soprano Laura Strickling and pianist Tom Sauer.

Support for this recording comes from J and Helen Schlichting, as well as Esa-Pekka Salonen, Sally and Brad Austin, Aaron Egigian and Segerstrom Center for the Arts.

The music was not only superb but reinforced for me at least that live unamplified music exemplifies what most of us define as "natural". Nothing can even come close IMO. The string quartet was was wonderful as was the soprano with the piano accompanist.

I sat beside Gary Koh for the recording and learned quite a bit from Gary who has not only been present before for such sessions but who also has been involved to some extent with Yarlung Records in the underwriting of some performers. as well as donating equipment so kudos to Gary for this noble cause of bringing young new musicians to the spotlight for listeners like us to become familiar with.

After the performance Gary came back to my house for a few hours of listening but more so to help me further dial in my Tech Das AF1 and MC Anna cartridge as well as to hear again my system which has changed since Gary was last at my house in June 2014. I was anxious to get Gary's opinion about my quest for "natural" sound.

Within a few minutes of initial listening Gary had out his protractor and my strain gauge and was checking everything on the cartridge set up as there are now 300-400 hours and he felt a quick evaluation was necessary. Gary confirmed that David's set up was right on other than a few minor adjustments. What impressed me was that minuscule changes made by Gary to the arm made huge changes at the listening position. We listened for several hours to the demo music that Gary brought. I have said here so many times before that Gary's playlists at shows are second to none. He lived up to my expectation once again yesterday with his eclectic choice of music. He did bring with two LP's that knocked my socks off as they were so good. I have to find and order these two records before I can say what they were as Gary says they aren't easy to find and although pricey, weren't off the chart.

I felt very privileged yesterday to not only attend this fine recording session but to have Gary come back and tweak my analog set up left me with a huge smile on my face after Gary left. We had a lot of fun together. For me this is the enjoyment of this hobby. All we did was listen and made fine adjustments based on what our ears told us. To reap such large changes at there listening position with such small adjustments wasn't something I was expecting

Thank you Bob Attiyeh for the experience of being at a recording session and a big thumb's up to Gary Koh for getting me even closer to that "natural" sound

 

[ddk]

I had a wonderful afternoon yesterday with about 40 music lovers at the invite of Bob Attiyeh from Yarlung Records for a live recording session of some new artists.Here was the invitation....

Yarlung executive producer J Schlichting joins me in inviting you for a live concert recording session in beautiful Samueli Hall at the Segerstrom Center for the Arts in Costa Mesa on November 3rd, at 1pm. Restricted to 40 guests (you will be sitting with the musicians, microphones and engineers in the recording space) so please rsvp as soon as convenient.

Repertoire includes James Matheson’s String Quartet with violinist Baird Dodge leading members and family from the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and the song cycle Times Alone, with New York musicians soprano Laura Strickling and pianist Tom Sauer.

Support for this recording comes from J and Helen Schlichting, as well as Esa-Pekka Salonen, Sally and Brad Austin, Aaron Egigian and Segerstrom Center for the Arts.

The music was not only superb but reinforced for me at least that live unamplified music exemplifies what most of us define as "natural". Nothing can even come close IMO. The string quartet was was wonderful as was the soprano with the piano accompanist.

I sat beside Gary Koh for the recording and learned quite a bit from Gary who has not only been present before for such sessions but who also has been involved to some extent with Yarlung Records in the underwriting of some performers. as well as donating equipment so kudos to Gary for this noble cause of bringing young new musicians to the spotlight for listeners like us to become familiar with.

After the performance Gary came back to my house for a few hours of listening but more so to help me further dial in my Tech Das AF1 and MC Anna cartridge as well as to hear again my system which has changed since Gary was last at my house in June 2014. I was anxious to get Gary's opinion about my quest for "natural" sound.

Within a few minutes of initial listening Gary had out his protractor and my strain gauge and was checking everything on the cartridge set up as there are now 300-400 hours and he felt a quick evaluation was necessary. Gary confirmed that David's set up was right on other than a few minor adjustments. What impressed me was that minuscule changes made by Gary to the arm made huge changes at the listening position. We listened for several hours to the demo music that Gary brought. I have said here so many times before that Gary's playlists at shows are second to none. He lived up to my expectation once again yesterday with his eclectic choice of music. He did bring with two LP's that knocked my socks off as they were so good. I have to find and order these two records before I can say what they were as Gary says they aren't easy to find and although pricey, weren't off the chart.

I felt very privileged yesterday to not only attend this fine recording session but to have Gary come back and tweak my analog set up left me with a huge smile on my face after Gary left. We had a lot of fun together. For me this is the enjoyment of this hobby. All we did was listen and made fine adjustments based on what our ears told us. To reap such large changes at there listening position with such small adjustments wasn't something I was expecting

Thank you Bob Attiyeh for the experience of being at a recording session and a big thumb's up to Gary Koh for getting me even closer to that "natural" sound

Lucky man! This is a great opportunity to hear the musicians and see the recording technique, hopefully you'll get to hear the actual master recordings and see how close they are to what you experienced.

david

 

[Steve Williams]

That was going to be my plan

The hall itself was acoustically superb

 

[PeterA]

Wow, Steve, that sounds like a great day. I'm curious to learn what Gary did to your set up. Can you please describe what he adjusted and what sonic differences you heard? I find it amazing that tiny adjustments can indeed change the sound by quite a bit.

 

[Steve Williams]

He adjusted the tracking force as well as adjusted the azimuth using white noise as a guide. He also adjusted the anti skate The differences were more solidity to the image in the first track Gary played he commented that the sound from the cymbals were drifting from side to side after he adjusted the image seemed much better focused. The tracking force was set up correctly initially at 2.6 gms but yesterday measured 2.8 which he adjusted. I was most interested in how slight anti skate adjustments as well as the azaleas myth caused a much more focused image.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That seems like an extremely fun and memorable day!

 

[Steve Williams]

That seems like an extremely fun and memorable day!

I wanted you to come with me but you were returning to London

 

[Ron Resnick]

I know. I greatly appreciated the invitation! If I had not had to leave I absolutely would have joined you!

 

[RBFC]

He adjusted the tracking force as well as adjusted the azimuth using white noise as a guide. He also adjusted the anti skate The differences were more solidity to the image in the first track Gary played he commented that the sound from the cymbals were drifting from side to side after he adjusted the image seemed much better focused. The tracking force was set up correctly initially at 2.6 gms but yesterday measured 2.8 which he adjusted. I was most interested in how slight anti skate adjustments as well as the azaleas myth caused a much more focused image.

Isn't auto-correct a hoot?

Lee

Really, that and fat fingers and not reading it first but I think you know what I meant

 

[garylkoh]

Thank you Steve!

This is what this hobby is about - enjoying music and sharing experiences with friends. I'm glad that I was able to help to refine your system. Thank you for your trust in letting me tweak even though none of the components are my design. The Techdas Air Force One and the Graham Elite are stupendous feats of engineering, but still, minor adjustments can bring major rewards. I hope you took notes in case the set-up drifts as everything runs in even more!