Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?

[the sound of Tao]

Good post Graham. Fun busting seems to be on the increase and I wonder if it wouldn’t be a good time to take a bit of a break from the banter.

It is nice to have Tango and Rockitman back though. I miss the references to cat litter boxes and those big absorption thingies in room corners. Going from the free wheeling style of the old playground to the woke boardroom is a buzz killer.

It looks like the YouTube audio channels and comment sections of what people hear from system videos is where the action seems to be heading. From record stores, magazines, and dealerships to Audiogon and forums, to streaming, listening rooms and YouTube system videos, personalities, and comment sections, thing are changing.

I think I’ll spin some records on some old gear and put the phone down. It is that time of year for some port and a good warm fire with family and friends.

That sounds like a great way to kick back for the season Peter, it’s been something of a whacky few years.

We are changing and I’d never imagined hip displacement would actually be a social comment about when you just don’t feel quite groovy enough to stay connected. Our tendency to need retreat (cue music in listening room) seems to me to be one of the core audiophile defaults.

Perhaps maybe that’s why we are drawn to focussing on the things sometimes because focussing on people can be overwhelming and more complex if constant. That tendency to parse comes at a cost. The more complex the environment the more challenging it is to keep track of it all .

I do have a (quite possibly off the wall ) theory that the kinds of systems that lead you to focus on the whole over the parts tend to lead us away from the drive to atomise and analyse everything all the time. A simple set of two way horns and a SET amp don’t seem to tend to make things as complex a process so the parts are just easier to synthesise into the whole again. I don’t know but I do know the last several years listening to a simple system has led me to become simpler in myself and I’ve had much less tendency to pull things apart which has been a strong lifelong trait and something I can easily be drawn to as a form of fascination.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I see less problems for myself over these last few years and greater connection and flow in my life and I’ve always seen the time spent listening to music as a part of my own moderation. I believe listening to music through a simpler more moderate setup has changed more in me than just the way I listen… but also the way I think and feel.

 

[Solypsa]

That sounds like a great way to kick back for the season Peter, it’s been something of a whacky few years.

We are changing and I’d never imagined hip displacement would actually be a social comment about when you just don’t feel quite groovy enough to stay connected. Our tendency to need retreat (cue music in listening room) seems to me to be one of the core audiophile defaults.

Perhaps maybe that’s why we are drawn to focussing on the things sometimes because focussing on people can be overwhelming and more complex if constant. That tendency to parse comes at a cost. The more complex the environment the more challenging it is to keep track of it all .

I do have a (quite possibly off the wall ) theory that the kinds of systems that lead you to focus on the whole over the parts tend to lead us away from the drive to atomise and analyse everything all the time. A simple set of two way horns and a SET amp don’t seem to tend to make things as complex a process so the parts are just easier to synthesise into the whole again. I don’t know but I do know the last several years listening to a simple system has led me to become simpler in myself and I’ve had much less tendency to pull things apart which has been a strong lifelong trait and something I can easily be drawn to as a form of fascination.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I see less problems for myself over these last few years and greater connection and flow in my life and I’ve always seen the time spent listening to music as a part of my own moderation. I believe listening to music through a simpler more moderate setup has changed more in me than just the way I listen.

the middle path

 

[the sound of Tao]

the middle path

You put it in your avatar and look at it for several hours a week while posting about audio stuff and music and eventually something is going to take hold

 

[spiritofmusic]

the middle path

Midway btwn the spkrs?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Midway btwn the spkrs?

Middle of the lounge chair, middle of the room, if only I’d worked it out in the middle of my youth instead of at the end of days

 

[Tango]

Why try to lure women into any hobby? Hobby is hobby. It is personal. Now get out of women subject and talk something else...maybe audio..since it is an audio forum? If the moderator really want more women to join I will make a thread on Ultherapy, A Skin Tightening & Lifting Treatment. At least my wife will join. Btw Ron pls don't take this as insulting women. Many women including my wife feel insulted when they find men overreacting trying so hard to protect them from getting verbal insult. They do just find defending themself.

Go go!. Go talk Magico, Wilson, etc.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Elliot's showroom

View attachment 86404

I deduce from this that Elliot is not expecting to have any female clients.

 

[PeterA]

Why try to lure women into any hobby? Hobby is hobby. It is personal. Now get out of women subject and talk something else...maybe audio..since it is an audio forum? If the moderator really want more women to join I will make a thread on Ultherapy, A Skin Tightening & Lifting Treatment. At least my wife will join. Btw Ron pls don't take this as insulting women. Many women including my wife feel insulted when they find men overreacting trying so hard to protect them from getting verbal insult. They do just find defending themself.

Go go!. Go talk Magico, Wilson, etc.

Right to the crux of the matter. Our inclusion and diversity manifests itself in endless debates about SET/Horns or SS/Cones and Panels. Analog or digital? To tweak or not to tweak (talk about a diverse group there -active v. passive, isolation v. coupling). And room treatment, power cords, and cables.

Tang, you know full well that talking Magico and Wilson is not inclusive. That only leads to bickering. The low powered tube guys are offended. We must include some high efficiency speakers in the community. Let's celebrate that there seems to be fairly similar levels of participation between the digital and analog sources, including some who go both ways, as well as the low efficiency, high efficiency, and every efficiency in between. We have made progress here at WBF, where the old is new again and is respected for what it is.

 

[morricab]

Right to the crux of the matter. Our inclusion and diversity manifests itself in endless debates about SET/Horns or SS/Cones and Panels. Analog or digital? To tweak or not to tweak (talk about a diverse group there -active v. passive, isolation v. coupling). And room treatment, power cords, and cables.

Tang, you know full well that talking Magico and Wilson is not inclusive. That only leads to bickering. The low powered tube guys are offended. We must include some high efficiency speakers in the community. Let's celebrate that there seems to be fairly similar levels of participation between the digital and analog sources, including some who go both ways, as well as the low efficiency, high efficiency, and every efficiency in between. We have made progress here at WBF, where the old is new again and is respected for what it is.

Are speakers that are high sensitivity but not horns, trans-horns?

 

[Kingrex]

Once again, lets flip the narative. Maybe our wives are correct. They turn the music on for the music. Not the equipment. Are we really uninterested in music.

 

[Solypsa]

Most everyone can hear when a system is decent. Younger friends of mine ( under 35) concede their music replay is not great but they all seem to have a defense mechanism against trying for more.

Maybe they visualize an ogre wiping his interconnects down with the dirty dollars that have no place in the wallet anymore

 

[assessor43]

Interestingly enough, A woman I know is probably the best at setting up turntables in the area where I live.

 

[treitz3]

Once again, lets flip the narative. Maybe our wives are correct. They turn the music on for the music. Not the equipment. Are we really uninterested in music.

Normal person: So, what do you like to do?

Me: Listen to music.

Normal person: Oh, that's cool. I like music too!

Me: No, you don't understand.

So, to answer that question? No. At least not for me. I'm the type of guy who will play an entire 9 minute song over because someone or something interrupted the music.

Tom

 

[bonzo75]

Interestingly enough, A woman I know is probably the best at setting up turntables in the area where I live.

The designer of SPJ tables is a lady

 

[tima]

Women are not in this hobby because of the nature of this hobby. They have interest in music but not on geeking over all the ancillaries that audiophiles feel make a difference.

I think this a correct analysis. There has only been a small handful of women in the hobby and there is scant evidence that this is by anything but personal choice. Saying we need to change how we speak and act for the sake of some faux inclusivity is bollocks.

I think this attitude may be exactly why there are so few women in the hobby.

Members may need to change how they post and interact to satisfy the decorum and cordiality standard of WBF.

Did it occur to a logician such as yourself that the "personal choice" decision by women not to participate in the hobby might be the result of men's attitudes toward women in the hobby?

Did it occur to a forum baron such as yourself that maybe you don't know anything about women.

I think you should change your avatar back to what it was.

I asked you a serious question about causality, and you reply with this?

How would you grade the substantive quality and logical quality of this reply according to the analytical framework you laid out for all of us in Post #37 of the "Cordial Participation in Terms of Service 2" thread:

1. Identification of the logical fallacies of the statement(s) or argument If you do not or cannot explain the flaws in the logic of a claim or argument, then do not state that 'their logic is dumb'. Logic is not a matter of one's individual preferences but a fairly codified set of guidelines. For example: a straw man argument, or presuming the truth of a conclusion in one's premises (aka ' begging the question'). Logic is not about facts but about how we arrive at conclusions - the 'rules' of argument if you will.

2. Carefully address statements you believe are wrong or false or misleading. IOW, fisk them. Fisking is a written argument where one person sequentially addresses each point of an of another person's argument

The above is so much more entertaining and educational than exposing one's inability to communicate with cheap insults.

Sigh ...

Ron, you did not ask a question about causality. You asked if something you said occurred to me and you asked it in a rather snarky way. My reply to you was no less serious. None of this has anything to do with logic.

Your terms of service may not have changed but it seems your attitude toward them has - or your attitude toward forum members. I don't think your new approach has gone over well. Same for the intrusive deletion of posts you think are not in accord with what you believe is the topic of a thread.

Your terms of service have nothing to do with different sexes and it seems you have taken on this 'women in audio forums' topic either as a distraction for things not going well with the terms of service beat down or as some means of making a point in an odd way about a few discourteous posters. Instead of falling back on some pleading about women, perhaps you should address those people instead - you've seen the reactions otherwise.

 

[KeithR]

I think this a correct analysis. There has only been a small handful of women in the hobby and there is scant evidence that this is by anything but personal choice. Saying we need to change how we speak and act for the sake of some faux inclusivity is bollocks.

You mean like the dying AARP male crowd at every show? Gee, maybe we can try to improve on that.

I had a good female audiophile friend for a long time and she laughed how bad forums were. Also had a six figure system and you’d love to hear her dealer stories.

Women have better ears than men too.

 

[tima]

You mean like the dying AARP male crowd at every show? Gee, maybe we can try to improve on that.

I suspect audio is supported on the backs of the dying AARP male crowd.

So you want trade show models like you see at car shows?

 

[bonzo75]

You mean like the dying AARP male crowd at every show? Gee, maybe we can try to improve on that.

I had a good female audiophile friend for a long time and she laughed how bad forums were. Also had a six figure system. Women have better ears than men too.

I don't see the point. There are many men who don't like forums too. They are also audiophiles.

And there are very few young males coming into the hobby too and that's how it is going to be. Let's face it, it is a dying hobby, for various reasons that have nothing to do with forum behavior.

 

[KeithR]

I suspect audio is supported on the backs of the dying AARP male crowd.

So you want trade show models like you see at car shows?

Actually a manufacturer did that at an LA show - so pathetic and embarrassing

 

[KeithR]

I don't see the point. There are many men who don't like forums too. They are also audiophiles.

And there are very few young males coming into the hobby too and that's how it is going to be. Let's face it, it is a dying hobby, for various reasons that have nothing to do with forum behavior.

Bullshit. People listen to music more than ever; it’s the industries job to capitalize on it. Headfi came out of nowhere and is 20x the size of hifi. Todays hifi industry is all about getting the six figure sale to the 65 year old while letting the wife pick out the Wilson color (yes, a dealer told me that).

ask Mike Bovaird how they market the Florida show to younger people.