Done with digital

[Fishfood]

I will make it simple - confirmation bias creates an illusionary state that helps you keeping interested in the system and listening. Slowly you get familiar to it and start noticing and getting used to its characteristic aspects, enjoying them.

The high-end marketing literature exploits these aspects.

But you failed to acknowledge the part about educated ears while subject to it, will notice the bias and hear through it. That's been my experience over and over.

 

[Alrainbow]

Put simple most great digital at any price is great until the first needle drop of great analog
while the pressing or source of either matters
if one just picks 10 best of the best of each type
and does a compare you don’t need to argue about a winner.

 

[microstrip]

But you failed to acknowledge the part about educated ears while subject to it, will notice the bias and hear through it. That's been my experience over and over.

It is the audiophile greatest sin - we consider ourselves free from bias just because we know about it. We can try reducing it, but never get free of it. Any way, we do not want to get free from it - it helps our listening and hobby enjoyment .

BTW, I am addressing positive and negative bias.

 

[microstrip]

(...) if one just picks 10 best of the best of each type
and does a compare you don’t need to argue about a winner.

No need to argue - most analogue listeners never list their 10 best for such comparisons - they are too busy.

Will you list yours? I list a few of mine in "The Place To List Your Reference Tracks" of my profile.

 

[Alrainbow]

No need to argue - most analogue listeners never list their 10 best for such comparisons - they are too busy.

Will you list yours? I list a few of mine in "The Place To List Your Reference Tracks" of my profile.

Ill
do better as I’m not a pro
let’s ask you to name your best 1/0 list first
I thought as you imply not long ago even though I am old enough to have grown up on analog.
it’s not just best of the best alone it’s music and music you think is great until !!!!!

 

[microstrip]

Ill
do better as I’m not a pro
let’s ask you to name your best 1/0 list first
I thought as you imply not long ago even though I am old enough to have grown up on analog.
it’s not just best of the best alone it’s music and music you think is great until !!!!!

Sorry, I can't understand your post at all. BTW, the only reason I ask for recordings is to try the understand the reasons of people preference and choice of format.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks. Can we know a few tittles of the LPs you are referring as your better pressings? It will be of real help to put a perspective in your findings.

mostly Lps i used for my references back in 2000-2002 were my early 45rpm reissues, which i still use as references. some of the specific cuts i used then are;

"Satin Doll", Blues a Plenty, Johnny Hodges, Classic 45rpm 4 disc
"Take 5", Time Out, Dave Brubeck, Classic 45rpm 4 disc
"Misty", Ella, Let No Man Write My Epitaph, Classic 45rpm 2 disc.
"Day in and Day Out", Billie, Songs of Distingue Lovers', 45 rpm 2 disc.
'"Malletoba Spank", Duke, 'Jazz Party in Stereo' 45rpm 4 disc.
"St. james Infirmary", Louis, Satchmo Plays King Oliver, 45rpm special pressing.
"Scheherazade", 2nd movement, Classic 45rpm 4 disc
"Faust", Funeral March, Gibson, Classic 45rpm 4 disc.
"Helplessly Hoping", CS&N, Classic 45 rpm 4 disc.

there were many more, but these are a few of the ones still in frequent use as a reference. and i can hear how these cuts have progressed over the years.

 

[Alrainbow]

Sorry, I can't understand your post at all. BTW, the only reason I ask for recordings is to try the understand the reasons of people preference and choice of format.

I apologize I have had a bad migraine all day it’s very hard to read and write

 

[Cellcbern]

I will make it simple - confirmation bias creates an illusionary state that helps you keeping interested in the system and listening. Slowly you get familiar to it and start noticing and getting used to its characteristic aspects, enjoying them.

The high-end marketing literature exploits these aspects.

That makes no sense to me. What you are basically saying is that it doesn't matter what components you buy because if you listen to them long enough you will be lulled (by confirmation bias) into loving them. Nothing in my experience supports that view.

 

[sbo6]

In this hobby it is very hard to separate confirmation or negative bias from education. Biases can easily turn in a solid preference after some time of exposition to particular gear.

That's true and why we should every now and again push aside our human preconceived notions and do scientific testing - A B A to confirm what we say is true, or not. You'd be surprised what you find out.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I would say that time and experience is the best way to counter that bias. the more we listen to our system, the more other systems we hear, the less susceptible to bias we are.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I am done with digital. After having suffered thru every digital format available over the years, and never liking the sound of any of it, I am putting all my time, money and effort into my analog front-ends (turntable and tapedeck).

How many of you have a similar story to tell?

I m also done with digital , i threw my laptop / smartphone in the bin .
Nice and quit at work , no more mails

 

[rDin]

A lot of computer audio (local files or, often worse, streaming) sounds artificial and synthetic. As I said, not all of it does, but it is really hard to get it right. And since there are probably a lot of people with suboptimal computer audio, not many will have heard the capability of digital to convey authentic, believable timbre. Of course, in comparison vinyl unquestionably rules under those circumstances.

With competent playback of physical disc you don't have those problems with synthetic, plasticky sound that plague much of computer-audio.

This makes the local source the benchmark against which to test your streaming solution. If your local source sounds better than your streaming solution, you know there is still work to do...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Put simple most great digital at any price is great until the first needle drop of great analog

I think this is too absolutist. We have senior members who tell us they prefer the sound of digital. This fact cannot be ignored, or demeaned as an illegitimate or wrong preference.

 

[iaxel]

Referring only to classical music.
If you solely listen to analogue, you're missing ~3.5 decades of great classical music performances and recordings.
Very few were pressed on vinyl (digital master, of course), and those that were sound better on digital playback.

I don't intend to give up on digital, no sir.

 

[microstrip]

That's true and why we should every now and again push aside our human preconceived notions and do scientific testing - A B A to confirm what we say is true, or not. You'd be surprised what you find out.

Unfortunately there are no scientific tests that can be carried in this hobby, unless we decide to dedicate all our life to this hobby. Some people will disagree with me, but I find that A-B-A is not a proper test in the high-end.

 

[microstrip]

That makes no sense to me. What you are basically saying is that it doesn't matter what components you buy because if you listen to them long enough you will be lulled (by confirmation bias) into loving them. Nothing in my experience supports that view.

It is not what I am saying - you are just pointing to what could be an extreme consequence to misinterpret my sentence that just points to a coexistence between bias, education and preferences.

IMHO your interpretation does not make sense at all. Fortunately people can read my original sentence any time.

 

[microstrip]

I think this is too absolutist. We have senior members who tell us they prefer the sound of digital. This fact cannot be ignored, or demeaned as an illegitimate or wrong preference.

I would specify - the sound of digital properly recorded and played. Analog and digital have different technical specifications and capabilities, they fool us in different ways.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That's true and why we should every now and again push aside our human preconceived notions and do scientific testing - A B A to confirm what we say is true, or not. You'd be surprised what you find out.

you would only be surprised if the A B A is a new thing. i do it every day all the time. my digital <-> vinyl compares are a permanent part of my listening. and there is a consistent hierarchy; yet i embrace both for what they are and can be. i prefer both.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Long thread about nothing but personal preference. That's OK unless/until preference is confused with and promoted as truth.
(N.B.: I am not promoting my prefences as truth.)