DSD vs PCM

[wisnon]

Thanks Guys…missed it. Senior moment. LoL

 

[Joe Whip]

It happens to the best of us!

 

[FrantzM]

Fair points...I think I like DSD128 best, so far. I can only play DSD256 and up on my iDSD, while I can play DXD and DSD128 on my Lampi.

Wisnon

Must I understand that you are using the nano iDSD from IFi? I have the iDSD micro and they say it goes to DSD 785 Khz?I must say however that i wasn't convinced by the Mercury Living Presence Hybrid dacs. The comparison might not have been fair however:
It was the Sony CD/SACD player compared to a Theta Dac/Transport combo a long time ago.
I will orderthe album and report.

 

[wisnon]

Actually, I have the Micro and Nano, but I loaned the nano to a pal months ago, as it was surplus to requirements.

I also have a Lampi Big7 with DSD128.

Needless to say the Lampi is way better, BUT the Micro does have good DSD.

As I use Mac, I am not able to play above 128 yet...

 

[bonzo75]

Wisnon

It was the Sony CD/SACD player compared to a Theta Dac/Transport combo a long time ago.
.

I have the Sony SACD Player, the SCD XA 9000ES. I really don't like it. Flat, cuppy and linear sounding, as compared to the Lampi

 

[Lee]

I will add my two cents as someone who has recorded in both formats and knows what many sessions sound like at the mic feed. Both formats can sound great but DSD is a bit smoother and more natural to my ears and matches the live event more closely. We have used Sound Devices and a variety of ADCs on the PCM side and Korg gear on the DSD side.

 

[RadioWonder]

I wish I spoke Japanese so I could download this DSD 11.2MHz Music for my Micro iDSD... I am afraid I will, even with Google Translation, make a horible mistake and not get my music...
http://ototoy.jp/feature/20141001/DSD+11.2MHz%E8%A7%A3%E7%A6%81%21%21+SOIL%E3%81%AE%E3%83%94%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E4%B8%88%E9%9D%92%E3%81%AE%E3%82%BD%E3%83%AD%E4%BD%9C%E3%82%92%E2%80%9C%E6%9C%80%E9%AB%98%E9%9F%B3%E8%B3%AA%E2%80%9D%E3%81%A7

 

[asiufy]

I wish I spoke Japanese so I could download this DSD 11.2MHz Music for my Micro iDSD... I am afraid I will, even with Google Translation, make a horible mistake and not get my music...
http://ototoy.jp/feature/20141001/DSD+11.2MHz解禁!!+SOILのピアニスト丈青のソロ作を“最高音質”で

Cool! It's a solo piano album by Soil & Pimp Session's pianist.
But yeah, japanese e-commerce/download sites are notoriously difficult for foreigners. Most won't even accept credit cards issued outside Japan...

 

[Sonus]

Hi

I am open to change my mind and/or stance on certain things. Many here claim that DSD is superior to PCM. Several DACs actually perform internal PCM to DSD conversion and the results are much loved by some audiophiles. I have heard some DSD that sounded great and some not so much as in any format BTW.

What titles/Discs/Pieces do you know that would allow a fair comparison? Same mastering different coding. That would show off the aleged superiority of DSD?

You can easily compare yourself, if you play FLAC and DSD on your DAC from the files in the link below and can't hear a difference you can assume your DAC is converting DSD to PCM, i can clearly hear the difference and I love DSD, DXD also sounds amazing in my DAC i wish we can get more of it and soon.
http://www.2l.no/hires/

 

[Bruce B]

You can easily compare yourself, if you play FLAC and DSD on your DAC from the files in the link below and can't hear a difference you can assume your DAC is converting DSD to PCM, i can clearly hear the difference and I love DSD, DXD also sounds amazing in my DAC i wish we can get more of it and soon.
http://www.2l.no/hires/

All resolutions and encodings are derived from the same original DXD source files on the 2L site. For a fair assessment of DSD vs. PCM, you need native files in both formats, instead of some up/down sampled file!

 

[Sonus]

For a fair assessment of DSD vs. PCM, you need native files in both formats, instead of some up/down sampled file!

If one thinks FLAC is better than DSD or they sound the same, then converting DSD to FLAC should sound the same, all the time.

 

[Bruce B]

If one thinks FLAC is better than DSD or they sound the same, then converting DSD to FLAC should sound the same, all the time.

ANY digital conversion from DSD -> PCM or the other way will degrade the signal.

 

[esldude]

You can easily compare yourself, if you play FLAC and DSD on your DAC from the files in the link below and can't hear a difference you can assume your DAC is converting DSD to PCM, i can clearly hear the difference and I love DSD, DXD also sounds amazing in my DAC i wish we can get more of it and soon.
http://www.2l.no/hires/

These are excellent recordings, but are not quite level matched. There something around .2 db difference. Just enough to prejudice one as hearing it at better quality whether it is or not. Level matching in such comparisons is vitally important. Most such online comparison files are not quite matched. I don't suspect any nefarious purpose, it just happens for a variety of reasons.

 

[CGabriel]

ANY digital conversion from DSD -> PCM or the other way will degrade the signal.

Bruce I don't know if you have the time but it would be helpful if you explained this more. Some people seem to think that "digital" is almost magical in that it can be endlessly manipulated and up/down converted without any negative effect.

 

[Joe Whip]

You can easily compare yourself, if you play FLAC and DSD on your DAC from the files in the link below and can't hear a difference you can assume your DAC is converting DSD to PCM, i can clearly hear the difference and I love DSD, DXD also sounds amazing in my DAC i wish we can get more of it and soon.
http://www.2l.no/hires/

You do realize that DXD is PCM?

 

[wisnon]

You do realize that DXD is PCM?

LoL

Posts #4 and #11 give examples of native DSD and PCM recorded from the same session.

 

[Joe Whip]

It is my understanding that 2L records exclusively in DXD.

 

[wisnon]

It is my understanding that 2L records exclusively in DXD.

Agreed. I was supporting your position and directing the poster to 2 examples or native format recordings from the same session.

 

[Bruce B]

I have one album that is available from Sound Liaison, "Impromptu", which was directly mastered in 24/96 PCM and DSD64 in parallel which could be used for such a format comparison.

I don't understand this comment. What was the native recording format? The mastering is the last step and who knows what happened to it before hand.

To compare 2 "native" recordings, the source must be recorded with 2 separate devices, or with tape, recorded 2 separate times with the same converter/workstation.

 

[Sonus]

You do realize that DXD is PCM?

Yes, i do. this is why i added the "also" in my comment.

As i see it, if one format is superior to another then converting from the inferior format to the superior should result in the same SQ, consistently, all the time.
And it is easy to test.