Entreq Tellus grounding
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
- Start date
Yes.
But I also use my ears and refrain from dismissing the practical experience of other members
Some early impressions from my trial.
I have so far only heard the Entreq with Apollo RCA ground cables to the line stage and a few hours to settle in. As others have mentioned, the effect does build up gradually and I did not fully realize the extent of it until I disconnected the ground cables toward the end of the listening session.
Interestingly, with my line stage, which is dual mono, grounding separately the left and right channels was key to appreciating the effect of the Entreq, to the point that I might have passed on it if I had only heard it with one channel grounded. In other words, when I started disconnecting the ground cables one at a time, most of the drop in sound quality occurred upon removal of the first cable. Removing the second cable had a marginal additional impact. I am glad that rockitman and allvinyl mentioned this earlier in the thread, as I might not have thought about it otherwise.
The general impression is that of increased energy and dynamic contrast, perhaps due to quieter background. Everything is more vivid and tonally saturated. Instruments and voices have better and more focused projection in the room, increasing the perceived realism and soundstage depth. I can also listen at a bit lower volume before the music acquires enough impact.
I am looking forward to finding out how much more can be obtained with additional settling in, optimization of the ground cables and the grounding of additional components.
I have so far only heard the Entreq with Apollo RCA ground cables to the line stage and a few hours to settle in. As others have mentioned, the effect does build up gradually and I did not fully realize the extent of it until I disconnected the ground cables toward the end of the listening session.
Interestingly, with my line stage, which is dual mono, grounding separately the left and right channels was key to appreciating the effect of the Entreq, to the point that I might have passed on it if I had only heard it with one channel grounded. In other words, when I started disconnecting the ground cables one at a time, most of the drop in sound quality occurred upon removal of the first cable. Removing the second cable had a marginal additional impact. I am glad that rockitman and allvinyl mentioned this earlier in the thread, as I might not have thought about it otherwise.
The general impression is that of increased energy and dynamic contrast, perhaps due to quieter background. Everything is more vivid and tonally saturated. Instruments and voices have better and more focused projection in the room, increasing the perceived realism and soundstage depth. I can also listen at a bit lower volume before the music acquires enough impact.
I am looking forward to finding out how much more can be obtained with additional settling in, optimization of the ground cables and the grounding of additional components.
great comments/insights....nice system by the way. Yes, in my experience it is:
20 minutes
3 hours
48 hours
2 weeks
then stable. i'd say you should have a nice improvement by around 3 hours...and then it steadily advances all the way thru 48 hours (not of playtime...just from when you've hooked them all up). And though no doubt you might have acclimated to the sound at that point...taking them out is generally quite a surprise (in terms of grain that appears which at least for me, i did not realized was there). And then you have to start all over again and wait the 48 hours.
Good luck and look forward to ongoing comments as to how it works out for you.
I have pulled cables and added them back in unsighted (during my 4 hour demo) and not even in the sound field (off to the side) and I can still hear the difference. Rather than speculate as it may be difficult for you to wrap your brain around the concept (like it is for many)...try them out yourself with a demo.
dmnc02,
How do the improvements from the Entreq(Tellus?)with Apollo RCA ground cables compare to your other tweeks?
Do you have access to a multimeter?
If so, are the RCA grounds in your preamp's left and right channels connected to one another?
Are they connected to the ground pin of the IEC input?
How do the improvements from the Entreq(Tellus?)with Apollo RCA ground cables compare to your other tweeks?
Do you have access to a multimeter?
If so, are the RCA grounds in your preamp's left and right channels connected to one another?
Are they connected to the ground pin of the IEC input?
I hope my kit comes in soon. Mine was delayed for the lack of Atlantis cables here in the states. Yes, that dual mono thing is key, imo. My phono pre is also dual mono and performed better with two cables in the spare input. I was unable to try two cables for the output. I would be interested in your findings with regard to using two cables for preamp input and two cables for preamp output. I was not able to get a definite impression.... it works or does nothing on the output side due to a lack of time with the demo.
That is great news and I am delighted at the improvements you have heard.
As Lloyd has commented they are all consistent with other Entreq users experiences and adding earth cables to the rest of the system should improve the sound quality still further..
There is no way I would dispense with the Entreq cables and components in my system.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating!
Dan,
Unfortunately I do not have a multimeter, so I cannot answer your question regarding the RCA grounds.
As to how the Entreq compares to my other tweaks, it is a difficult question to answer, since the effects are different. Let me put it this way: it is about the same order of magnitude as going from my previous Reference Anniversary line stage to the Reference 10.
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My chassis' grounds via the power cords are to the mains and are not lifted. This product deals with the signal ground plane. They are not one and the same. Your statement that these boxes can't possibly work without you ever hearing them in your system is laughable. You seem to have made up your mind up with your own educated but apparently flawed logic. Rather than crapping this thread up, why don't you move along ? Those that have actually heard this stuff in their system can continue to exchange relevant idea's and experiences.
Keith,
that is like saying there is no difference between signal ground and safety, ergo it does not matter how one implements these then in electronics (context beyond safety); in reality it does though.
Cheers
Orb
I know Keith a little. Despite his dismissive comments here, he's a most polite and charming fellow. But this is an impasse that can't be bridged using his mindset. He also believes cables and esp power cords have zero effect on SQ. All that matters to him is spkrs and room treatments/acoustics. Like all naysayers, it all gets a little boring because the attitude is not that the concept (here grounding, but elsewhere could be DSP etc) is hard to get one's head around and caution needs to be exercised (I'm sure we have no issue w/this if that was his message), but that it can't work in any way and we're all fooling ourselves big time. There is no doubt placebo/nocebo/listener confirmation bias in all things, esp the high end, and wanting things to work can bias outcomes, but there comes a point where we need to apply an open mind and just have a God damn listen.
When Fraser of Kog Audio (the Entreq UK dealer) turned up w/this less than flashy wooden box, the Silver Tellus, and a single Apollo lead to ground the preamp, I almost told him to leave my apartment and take his stuff before the demo took place, such was my initial derision - no way was I rooting for THIS to work, added to my extreme skepticism that any change could be elicited. But I stuck at it since my 8kVA balanced power transformer expt had been a total success, and power was something that seemed to have plenty of potential for impvts, and maybe grounding would fit into this scheme of things. To his credit he did not set me up in any way for how I might experience the effect, just that I might find things surprising, and invited me to relax and take things in. The rest is history (explained in my Entreq thread comments, and by all the contributions of Lloyd, Barry, Guillame - and now Christian, hopefully MikeL in due course).
Even now I sit listening to music released from the straightjacket of noise and mains/component-borne gremlins via Entreq and have two simultaneous thoughts: just WHAT is happening, and HOW can it all be so phenomenal? Keith I'm sure would contend NOTHING and NO WAY, but I remain 100% convinced, and as spellbound as ever.
When Fraser of Kog Audio (the Entreq UK dealer) turned up w/this less than flashy wooden box, the Silver Tellus, and a single Apollo lead to ground the preamp, I almost told him to leave my apartment and take his stuff before the demo took place, such was my initial derision - no way was I rooting for THIS to work, added to my extreme skepticism that any change could be elicited. But I stuck at it since my 8kVA balanced power transformer expt had been a total success, and power was something that seemed to have plenty of potential for impvts, and maybe grounding would fit into this scheme of things. To his credit he did not set me up in any way for how I might experience the effect, just that I might find things surprising, and invited me to relax and take things in. The rest is history (explained in my Entreq thread comments, and by all the contributions of Lloyd, Barry, Guillame - and now Christian, hopefully MikeL in due course).
Even now I sit listening to music released from the straightjacket of noise and mains/component-borne gremlins via Entreq and have two simultaneous thoughts: just WHAT is happening, and HOW can it all be so phenomenal? Keith I'm sure would contend NOTHING and NO WAY, but I remain 100% convinced, and as spellbound as ever.
The boxes cannot be opened for obvious reasons...Ie: Trade secrets perhaps ? Power cords don't make a difference ? LOL... You should try demoing some. It's pretty easy to tell they do impart on the sound. Measurements fail to measure sound quality differences between IC's, speaker cables and PC's. In fact measurements fail to guide one on what components sound best. There are plenty of threads here on the subject. "Search" is your friend.
That sounds like your problem...not mine. Your expectation is that measurements tell the whole story and that wires, cables and grounding solutions don't matter. How is life in a bubble ? Cheers mate !
No disrespect Keith, but you really are in the wrong business/sell the wrong components if you're going to turn over the same old tired objective/subjective arguments. The two best amps for specs are Yamaha receivers from decades ago and Halcro amps, both of which I find painful to listen to. But according to you they measure the best so they sound the best. Devialet measures beautifully, but they are w/out doubt not my cup of tea. SET amps often measure terribly, but get the right synergy and you can't turn the music off and get a good night's sleep. And why do you run a Grand Prix Monaco tt? - there's no way on specs alone it can do anything except bow to the altar of the spec-driven superiority of digital (for the record, it smoked your digital front end). And I'd love to know how your Liszts would measure/handle a double blind trial (I loved them, but I know many who would flee the room) - terribly I suspect.
But who gives a flying ..., high end is all about the heightened musical experience. There is no doubt one can make many mistakes, expensive ones at that, and bias oneself to go down blind alleys/listen to too many opinions/get suckered by myriad weird decisions, only to chuck one's toys out of the pram and start again. Grounding could be one of these weird decisions, but I get enough about it to agree it's unorthodox, and totally cost effective in that unlike component upgrades, it improves the whole system for less cost than replacing shiny boxes. And in groundbreaking, radical ways.
A blanket "it can't work/doesn't work/confirmation bias" is as tiring as it is inaccurate. How can something be confirmation bias if I'm 100% expecting the damn thing to be a FAILURE.
How was your confirmation bias when you first set eyes on the Liszts? Prob off the scale, one can't help but love them. So please don't tar us all w/the brush of easily influenced saps, ready to splash our cash at anything that lands in our laps. I'm proud to say I reject more stuff than I buy, knowing I have a good ear and a naturally skeptical attitude, only going ahead w/anything when it proves to really be of benefit/synergise well. Entreq grounding does this and more.
Audio is not the place to be objective across the board. If you believe this Keith, I wouldn't hang out w/any reductionist, measurement driven physicists!
But who gives a flying ..., high end is all about the heightened musical experience. There is no doubt one can make many mistakes, expensive ones at that, and bias oneself to go down blind alleys/listen to too many opinions/get suckered by myriad weird decisions, only to chuck one's toys out of the pram and start again. Grounding could be one of these weird decisions, but I get enough about it to agree it's unorthodox, and totally cost effective in that unlike component upgrades, it improves the whole system for less cost than replacing shiny boxes. And in groundbreaking, radical ways.
A blanket "it can't work/doesn't work/confirmation bias" is as tiring as it is inaccurate. How can something be confirmation bias if I'm 100% expecting the damn thing to be a FAILURE.
How was your confirmation bias when you first set eyes on the Liszts? Prob off the scale, one can't help but love them. So please don't tar us all w/the brush of easily influenced saps, ready to splash our cash at anything that lands in our laps. I'm proud to say I reject more stuff than I buy, knowing I have a good ear and a naturally skeptical attitude, only going ahead w/anything when it proves to really be of benefit/synergise well. Entreq grounding does this and more.
Audio is not the place to be objective across the board. If you believe this Keith, I wouldn't hang out w/any reductionist, measurement driven physicists!
Purite and Deverts contributions take me back to my childhood and a saying(in standard English as opposed to the colloquial original) that "There are non so deaf as those who do not want to hear."
How little has changed in more than 50 years!
How little has changed in more than 50 years!
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