Entreq Tellus grounding
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
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He is human, which is why sometimes he can be irritating, but then I put my mpingo discs on his posts and they sound pleasant
Keith, sent you a PM on one great article that shows MoFC and relation to pleasure and expectation bias, this would also trigger on actions we enjoy in audio world and other things; example in the audio world could be action cueing an LP or CD (less so), looking forward to sitting down with a drink and some quality listening,etc.
Anyway enjoy the article as it has been posted before (funny enough by those of us who would be described as being more subjectivist due to way we post
).Cheers
Orb
I was asked on the Tripont thread about the Entreq Receivus and thought i would post my comments in both locations...i own 4 of them now.
1. The Receivus (to a non-techie like me) seems to be some kind of antenna-like thing...an oval disc that sits on top of equipment with a grounding wire connected to it that is then attached to the grounding box. As an antenna...i suppose it acts like some kind of hoover for emi/rfi?
that's a non-techie interpretation...like a caveman seeing an F-16 for the first time and guessing.
2. What it does in terms of sound is very very much like what signal grounding does...except that it not only works on equipment like my Gryphon (which has neither an extra set of inputs for signal grounding nor a chassis screw)...it ALSO further improved when on my 4-box Zanden (each Zanden box has one on top)...and each time it got that much better. Same effect: lower noise, greater detail, more natural decay, and better more natural beginning and ending of notes...
I suppose there is still emi/rfi that abounds in and around the unit (may even be generated by the unit?)...and the Receivus just picks it up and dumps it into the grounding box?
1. The Receivus (to a non-techie like me) seems to be some kind of antenna-like thing...an oval disc that sits on top of equipment with a grounding wire connected to it that is then attached to the grounding box. As an antenna...i suppose it acts like some kind of hoover for emi/rfi?
that's a non-techie interpretation...like a caveman seeing an F-16 for the first time and guessing.
2. What it does in terms of sound is very very much like what signal grounding does...except that it not only works on equipment like my Gryphon (which has neither an extra set of inputs for signal grounding nor a chassis screw)...it ALSO further improved when on my 4-box Zanden (each Zanden box has one on top)...and each time it got that much better. Same effect: lower noise, greater detail, more natural decay, and better more natural beginning and ending of notes...
I suppose there is still emi/rfi that abounds in and around the unit (may even be generated by the unit?)...and the Receivus just picks it up and dumps it into the grounding box?
If it is indeed acting as a sink for EMI/RFI, it is hardly surprising that it improved your digital front end. Was the effect just as significant on your amp? Also, was your Zanden front end already grounded through the signal and chassis plane when you added the Receivus?
The conjectured operation is similar to that of another product I use (which I will leave unnamed in order not to derail the thread).
I got one to try recently and did not get any real benefit from it on my amp but that was because I connected to the one of my two Silver tellus which is used for grounding the Entreq ics I use and it was with a silver earth cable which was the only long one I had. I did that because there were 7 other earth leads to that Silver Tellus and the component one already had eight earth cables connected. Tried it that way on the power conditioner and DCS Puccini to see if it worked on them as it was not improving the Vitius SIA 025 amp which was its intended location, but no obvious benefit.
Yesterday I connected it to the Silver Tellus used for the components with an available Apollo earth lead and placed it on the amp. Bingo! Immediate and clearly apparent improvement with the MD 109 tuner
and subsequently with the Puccini. The amp had very clearly benefitted and the system now sounds so much better.
I will definitely be keeping it and have ordered an Atlantis earth for said Receivus. For £400 over here plus the cost of the earth cable it really is a good buy. As both the Silver Tellus I have are boosted by an Atlantis box the extra earth cable does not appear to be overloading the Silver Tellus but I suspect it would be better still with its own Silver Minimus
Yesterday I connected it to the Silver Tellus used for the components with an available Apollo earth lead and placed it on the amp. Bingo! Immediate and clearly apparent improvement with the MD 109 tuner
and subsequently with the Puccini. The amp had very clearly benefitted and the system now sounds so much better.
I will definitely be keeping it and have ordered an Atlantis earth for said Receivus. For £400 over here plus the cost of the earth cable it really is a good buy. As both the Silver Tellus I have are boosted by an Atlantis box the extra earth cable does not appear to be overloading the Silver Tellus but I suspect it would be better still with its own Silver Minimus
Good to know, thanks. So, based on your experience, the Receivus provides additional benefits to grounding through the signal plane, even for analog components. Do you know why your first trial was ineffective? Was it the use of the basic silver cable instead of the Apollo or the fact that the first Silver Tellus was maxed out?
I recall another member previously advising against mixing the the two sets of earth cables and given the clearly apparent success of the changeover I am sure that was the reason for the ineffectiveness of the initial trial.I don't believe the Silver earth cable was the culprit as I have used them in the past with no problems but almost certainly the Apollo has contributed to the improvement and I have decided to move up to an Atlantis for the Receivus in the light of Lloyd's experience.Nor do I think the Tellus was maxed out particularly as the second Tellus is now serving 9 earth leads .
I was advised some time ago that others who had tried the Receivus had all reported clear improvements including one who uses the same Vitus amp. So initially I was both disappointed and puzzled but that is happily all behind me.
So to sum up I judge it it to be a real bargain buy for amps, and that accords with what I had heard. The transformers in amps generate a lot of emi which the Receivus hoovers up thus complementing and further improving the sound quality improvements delivered by the signal plane earth cables. It makes me wonder if chassis grounding becomes far less important with a Receivus in place.
If they can stand the heat of my tube amps, I will certainly give them a try at some point.
I expected more fight from Keith, tbh. As the WBF in-house reductionist/arch objectivist, he falls at the first hurdle to " I listened to it, liked it, bought it" -DESPITE the Liszts not showing up well on frequency graphs etc. Welcome to the subjectivist camp, Keith:b, there's a warm welcome for you here!
I have only heard Cessaro's at shows, but I was very impressed by them. I would really like to hear them in a good home or dealer environment.
Uber expensive drivers = uber expectation bias.
Tbh, Keith, you're being made to look a tad (pun intended), well, subjective. Hate to be the one to break it to you.
Tbh, Keith, you're being made to look a tad (pun intended), well, subjective. Hate to be the one to break it to you.
Thanks dm.
My Vitus can get pretty warm when running in Class A and Lloyd hasn't reported any problems with his Zandenss so hopefully not a problem
Magicos and ATCs measure extremely well, but I don't think they sound sublime (please don't jump on me if you're a fan of these - I'm just illustrating that measuring perfectly helps, but isn't pivotal, in "sounding sublime"). They both leave me cold. As did your digital player.
Keith, you came back from Munich and were dismissive of lots of stuff that measured well - I don't remember you saying these pieces sounded sublime.
You just don't want to get cosy w/us subjectivists LOL! The invite remains open
As I said Keith, you would love the Liszts even if they weren't perfect. And I know a fair number of people who hated the sound of them at Munich, and at other locations where the set up is more favourable (no criticism from me, I love 'em).
NOONE is buying them because they measure well.
And even if they measure well, horns all have colourations well in excess of conventional spkrs that turn as many off as on to them. Try telling those who hate the horn sound that "they measure well, and sound sublime as a result".
And for someone who is so wedded to the scientific method, I always found it strange you were prepared to sell them to me despite the bass being a "challenge" in your room, oblivious to the fact they could be challenged in my room
I'm afraid you deserve criticism since you're so open in criticising the rest of us.
Keith, you came back from Munich and were dismissive of lots of stuff that measured well - I don't remember you saying these pieces sounded sublime.
You just don't want to get cosy w/us subjectivists
LOL! The invite remains open As I said Keith, you would love the Liszts even if they weren't perfect. And I know a fair number of people who hated the sound of them at Munich, and at other locations where the set up is more favourable (no criticism from me, I love 'em).
NOONE is buying them because they measure well.
And even if they measure well, horns all have colourations well in excess of conventional spkrs that turn as many off as on to them. Try telling those who hate the horn sound that "they measure well, and sound sublime as a result".
And for someone who is so wedded to the scientific method, I always found it strange you were prepared to sell them to me despite the bass being a "challenge" in your room, oblivious to the fact they could be challenged in my room
I'm afraid you deserve criticism since you're so open in criticising the rest of us.
The Zanden already had chassis grounding and signal grounding...and it still got better with Receivus on DAC, DAC PSU, Transport PSU and Transport. But in terms of a signal Receivus having biggest bang for buck...i would say Gryphon Colosseum (which had no grounding on it).
Thanks. Your experience and Barry's are consistent: biggest bang on the amps. My curiosity is piqued: I will get to it.
Keith, I'll fully hold my hands up re my sound when you came over, but things have improved a lot since then. I did suggest a home trial of your Cessaro Chopins as possible replacement for my Zu spkrs, but this was never followed up on. I've replaced my Hovland HP200 preamp w/the 4 box dual mono Audion Quattro preamps, put Elrog 845s in the Audion SETs, installed Sablon QGC PC's and more Entreq grounding. I'm getting quite the breakthru esp in the low end. I'm now able to dial the sub amps at 40Hz, and am getting better lower end extension w/no muddying of the midrange.
You're cordially invited to re visit if you have the time. You might even like the sound.
You're cordially invited to re visit if you have the time. You might even like the sound.
Well, I'm putting myself under the objective/subjective spotlight. For the first time in a while, I've deliberately disconnected Entreq from the whole system, and then reconnected, and noted the differences.
The reasons? Well, w/the objectivist drive to scorn all things not easily measured/explained, and Entreq can fit into this, I need to challenge my experiences and possible preconceptions.
I would like to know if placebo/expectation bias really is the issue here re impvts I report I've heard, or if they are genuine/tangible.
I can tell you I was pretty anxious, maybe £4500 worth of egg was about to land on my face!
Well, it's not definitive for the scientific crowd, but changes were immediately noticeable - on disconnecting the lot, a shrinking of the soundstage to btwn the spkrs, less solidity, and a sort of "grey" quality, all resulted, the music lacking colour and drama.
Reinstalling, and just 30s later, things are perking up - not radical, but the promise of things to come. Confident 24hrs will do it.
Boys, I am MIGHTY relieved.
So confident am I that I'm not deluding myself, I've made an offer for arch objectivist Keith (he lives not far from me) to come over and do a tentative blind trial. Over to you Keith.
The reasons? Well, w/the objectivist drive to scorn all things not easily measured/explained, and Entreq can fit into this, I need to challenge my experiences and possible preconceptions.
I would like to know if placebo/expectation bias really is the issue here re impvts I report I've heard, or if they are genuine/tangible.
I can tell you I was pretty anxious, maybe £4500 worth of egg was about to land on my face
!Well, it's not definitive for the scientific crowd, but changes were immediately noticeable - on disconnecting the lot, a shrinking of the soundstage to btwn the spkrs, less solidity, and a sort of "grey" quality, all resulted, the music lacking colour and drama.
Reinstalling, and just 30s later, things are perking up - not radical, but the promise of things to come. Confident 24hrs will do it.
Boys, I am MIGHTY relieved.
So confident am I that I'm not deluding myself, I've made an offer for arch objectivist Keith (he lives not far from me) to come over and do a tentative blind trial. Over to you Keith.
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