Entreq Tellus grounding

[dmnc02]

Well, I'm putting myself under the objective/subjective spotlight. For the first time in a while, I've deliberately disconnected Entreq from the whole system, and then reconnected, and noted the differences.
The reasons? Well, w/the objectivist drive to scorn all things not easily measured/explained, and Entreq can fit into this, I need to challenge my experiences and possible preconceptions.
I would like to know if placebo/expectation bias really is the issue here re impvts I report I've heard, or if they are genuine/tangible.
I can tell you I was pretty anxious, maybe £4500 worth of egg was about to land on my face !
Well, it's not definitive for the scientific crowd, but changes were immediately noticeable - on disconnecting the lot, a shrinking of the soundstage to btwn the spkrs, less solidity, and a sort of "grey" quality, all resulted, the music lacking colour and drama.
Reinstalling, and just 30s later, things are perking up - not radical, but the promise of things to come. Confident 24hrs will do it.
Boys, I am MIGHTY relieved.
So confident am I that I'm not deluding myself, I've made an offer for arch objectivist Keith (he lives not far from me) to come over and do a tentative blind trial. Over to you Keith.

Spirit, that is a nice offer, but I am really curious as to how you can possibly do a meaningful blind test.

Keith has clearly stated his prior that grounding to the Entreq cannot possibly make a difference. Thus, in an A/B test he is going to be inclined to hear no difference, whether he is blindfolded or not. In other words, blindfolding him is not going to help to overcome his expectation bias.

Alternatively, since you have stated your preference for having the Entreq in the system, you could be the one to be blindfolded in order to test if you can correctly identify when the Entreq is in the system. But the problem with that is that the full effect of the Entreq takes days to build up and so the logical sequence is to listen with the Entreq first and then without, in which case once again blindfolding you does nothing to overcome any expectation bias.

If Keith does accept your invitation, it would seem to make much more sense to just enjoy the system with the Entreq, then remove it, and let the magnitude of the difference be the only factor at play to induce him to revise his prior. Forget about blind tests

 

[TBG]

Spirit, that is a nice offer, but I am really curious as to how you can possibly do a meaningful blind test.

Keith has clearly stated his prior that grounding to the Entreq cannot possibly make a difference. Thus, in an A/B test he is going to be inclined to hear no difference, whether he is blindfolded or not. In other words, blindfolding him is not going to help to overcome his expectation bias.

Alternatively, since you have stated your preference for having the Entreq in the system, you could be the one to be blindfolded in order to test if you can correctly identify when the Entreq is in the system. But the problem with that is that the full effect of the Entreq takes days to build up and so the logical sequence is to listen with the Entreq first and then without, in which case once again blindfolding you does nothing to overcome any expectation bias.

If Keith does accept your invitation, it would seem to make much more sense to just enjoy the system with the Entreq, then remove it, and let the magnitude of the difference be the only factor at play to induce him to revise his prior. Forget about blind tests

I agree with dmnc02, you should just forget the blind tests. I have participated in several that were well run and several that used the ridiculous 30 seconds of music "same" versus "different" measure. If you hear a difference that is for the better, enjoy. No one is ever going to abide by your findings anyway. I have frequently done demonstrations taking off all of the grounds to the Tripoint Signature and unplugging the Signature from the wall. I immediately hear a loss of realism and in every demonstration so did the others in the room. My only real question is whether the Emperor can possibly be better enough than the Signature to consider trying to buy one.

 

[bonzo75]

I agree, Keith has a very strong nocebo and he doesn't trust his ears blinded or sighted

Only if you show him graphs which have changed will he hear the change.

Spirit, that is a nice offer, but I am really curious as to how you can possibly do a meaningful blind test.

Keith has clearly stated his prior that grounding to the Entreq cannot possibly make a difference. Thus, in an A/B test he is going to be inclined to hear no difference, whether he is blindfolded or not. In other words, blindfolding him is not going to help to overcome his expectation bias.

Alternatively, since you have stated your preference for having the Entreq in the system, you could be the one to be blindfolded in order to test if you can correctly identify when the Entreq is in the system. But the problem with that is that the full effect of the Entreq takes days to build up and so the logical sequence is to listen with the Entreq first and then without, in which case once again blindfolding you does nothing to overcome any expectation bias.

If Keith does accept your invitation, it would seem to make much more sense to just enjoy the system with the Entreq, then remove it, and let the magnitude of the difference be the only factor at play to induce him to revise his prior. Forget about blind tests

 

[dmnc02]

I do prefer measurements to blind faith.
Keit.

I do too if I know what to measure. And Spirit is not asking you to have faith but to experience it for yourself.

 

[TBG]

Amen, if we could only measure what is important.

 

[mauidan]

I do too if I know what to measure. And Spirit is not asking you to have faith but to experience it for yourself.

Get an Earth Ground Clamp Meter like the Fluke 1630, and measure the resistance at your ground rod and a ground connection on your Tellus and tell us which one has lower resistance.

I'm sure the guys that installed your Equi=Tech 10WQ could help you.

 

[dmnc02]

Get an Earth Ground Clamp Meter like the Fluke 1630, and measure the resistance at your ground rod and a ground connection on your Tellus and tell us which one has lower resistance.

I'm sure the guys that installed your Equi=Tech 10WQ could help you.

This is based on your conviction that the ground connection to the Tellus can have no effect if its resistance is higher than that at the ground rod.

 

[rockitman]

This is based on your conviction that the ground connection to the Tellus can have no effect if its resistance is higher than that at the ground rod.

Plus he's talking earth ground, not signal ground which is a different issue all together and is the main subject of this Entreq thread.

 

[mauidan]

This is based on your conviction that the ground connection to the Tellus can have no effect if its resistance is higher than that at the ground rod.

See my post #431.

Have you or Christan checked to see if signal grounds in your components are connected to earth ground?

 

[dmnc02]

See my post #431.

Have you or Christan checked to see if signal grounds in your components are connected to earth ground?

I personally haven't. But my components are listed in my signature. It should be easy for you to call the manufacturers and find out, if you are interested.

 

[rockitman]

See my post #431.

Have you or Christan checked to see if signal grounds in your components are connected to earth ground?

What does it matter ? I don't waste time trying to prove stuff should or shouldn't work when I hear that it clearly does work. I have spent enough years listening and tweaking my system to know when something works or doesn't using my ears alone.

 

[mauidan]

What does it matter ? I don't waste time trying to prove stuff should or shouldn't work when I hear that it clearly does work. I have spent enough years listening and tweaking my system to know when something works or doesn't using my ears alone.

What matters is if the signal grounds in your components are connected to earth ground and the Entreq improves the SQ, there's a real good chance that it has a lower impedance than your earth ground.

If you took the time to check the impedance of both of them and your earth ground had a higher impedance, you could have lowered it for a lot less than $15K.

For guys like you, Plug N Play= Plug N Pay.;-)

 

[mauidan]

I personally haven't. But my components are listed in my signature. It should be easy for you to call the manufacturers and find out, if you are interested.

Domenico,

Unlike you I have no skin in this game, so I have no desire to call the manufacturers of your gear.

I see you have ARC amps, long before I'd spend thousands of dollars on the Entreq tweaks, I would have put KT-150s in my amps.

 

[LL21]

... it clearly does work. I have spent enough years listening and tweaking my system to know when something works or doesn't using my ears alone.

REgarding signal grounding and Entreq, i use 2 Atlantis - one to Preamp and one to DAC RCA input. Both great improvements very much along the lines of what has been described here. Enjoy! Thanks for posting your experiences. i am sure it is helpful to others who are investigating.

 

[rockitman]

What matters is if the signal grounds in your components are connected to earth ground and the Entreq improves the SQ, there's a real good chance that it has a lower impedance than your earth ground.

If you took the time to check the impedance of both of them and your earth ground had a higher impedance, you could have lowered it for a lot less than $15K.

For guys like you, Plug N Play= Plug N Pay.;-)

I'm sure my earth ground sux...just standard suburban neighborhood stuff that meets basic construction/electrical code norms. The builder had no idea an audiophile was moving in.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Keith, your snide comments are really shown to be for what they are. I make an offer to you to be the controller of this blind trial - in other words, I'm the one who is unsighted, and you do the connecting/unconnecting while I'm out of the room.
And guess what, you IGNORE the offer, while still peddling the line that it should be done. You couldn't make it up if it weren't true!
My offer is withdrawn, you don't even have the courage of your own convictions.
And this is the last time I converse w/you, I lose all respect for you.
This was a big deal for me, I was prepared to eat humble pie in the public domain. Good luck w/your mission to enlighten us poor 'ol saps.
Btw, re your dissing soundstaging, maybe you'd like to withdraw the comments you made to me when we listened to the Liszts re how great the soundstaging was.
Your attitude is a joke, I spend no more time responding to you.

 

[dmnc02]

Domenico,

Unlike you I have no skin in this game, so I have no desire to call the manufacturers of your gear.

I see you have ARC amps, long before I'd spend thousands of dollars on the Entreq tweaks, I would have put KT-150s in my amps.

Dan, regarding the KT150, I have already done that. The Entreq is a much more significant upgrade.

Regarding how the signal ground is connected, I feel the same way as Chris: what does it matter? I already know, from trying it, that the Entreq is beneficial with my gear.

 

[bonzo75]

I thought that before upgrading my Ref 3 to Ref 5 or 5SE, putting Shun Mook Giant Diamond Resonators under it is a better bet, so I am glad I did that.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I was a little apprehensive to say the least when I did a quick disconnect/reconnect of my entire Entreq rig prior to making my offer. Constant messages that all is a sham are hard to totally ignore. But the difference was startling, disconnecting leading to a collapse in the soundstage, the stereo image (music narrowed to btwn the spkrs), loss of dynamics, and most notably a greyness to the sound, music lacking colour. Reconnecting brought a fair degree of the old sound back, esp the stereo width, and today all the colour is back. Happy as Larry .
I've had a few personal issues recently where my self esteem has been badly under assault, and tbh this episode could have gone off the rails too. I'm pleased, nay ecstatic, that in this little yet significant way, I'm apparently not an empty vessel to be filled w/the claims of snake oil salesman, ever ready to be influenced in more and more financially challenging ways .
I'm back in the room!!!

 

[bonzo75]

I think self-esteem has no place in an audio room. Entreq and you aside, self-esteem can only hold one's system back IMO. To improve one's system he should be open to radically different ideas. So-called objectivists should be open to trying what they consider foo, and Analog guys should be open to correcting their rooms in the digital domain. Only if you challenge your own paradigm will a system improve

Signed,

Socrates