Entreq Tellus grounding
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
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Dmnc02, I'm going to allow my twin Apollos on my dual mono Audion Quattro preamps settle for a little while before I trial the Cleanus. Early 2015 looks good. I'm desperate to hate it!!! Grounding/filtering the mains via the Cleanus/Apollo before this gets to the components seems to be logical, maybe even reducing the load on the S. Tellus itself. If 9 Apollos to the S. Tellus ends up as overambitious, I may go for an Entreq Olympus dedicated to the preamps. Since my biggest bang-for-$/£ was the initial grounding solely of my previous Hovland preamp, it make some sense devoting most to the preamps now w/it's own box, and the rest of the system another box. So: Audion Quattro dual mono preamps>2 Apollos>Olympus/6 other components>6 Apollos>S. Tellus<Apollo<Cleanus>Westwick balanced power transformer.
"The magnitude of that effect does however vary a little with the brand of the partenring equipment. The power supplies and ground planes are designed differently across different manufacturers so its hardly surprising that some makes benefit even more from even a small dosage of Entreq."
If your component has a separate Signal and Safety Ground planes, the Entreq will not help as the stray voltage can’t loop or migrate into the signal plane. If your component has both planes tied together for reference then the Entreq might help.
"Of all the equipment tried so far though, perhaps the biggest upgrade using Entreq that we have observed has been with Devialet."
The Devialet's Signal and Safety Ground planes are tied together.
From my research on grounding:
Your ground rod should to be at 25 ohms or less of resistance.
If it is equal to or lower than the Entreq’s impedance, the stray voltages may see the ground rod as the lower impedance and migrate to it. In which case, the Enteq would seem relatively ineffective at providing any improvement.
So, if your signal and ground plane are tied and your ground rod has high impedance this is where the Entreq has the potential to bring the most improvement.
Dan, I can't contribute to the physics of all this, but your contributions impart some light on what Entreq is trying to do, how it might help, and will hopefully pour cold water on the arch objectivist attitude that it's all a scam designed to prey on the naively affluent out there (are you reading this, Purite Keith?).
Despite my overwhelming positive experiences, I have had a couple of dead ends (grounding my prev Tom Evans Groove plus SRX phono stage, and trial on Atlantis add-on box). This proves a few things - as w/all things audio, YMMV - there may be electrical install design reasons as Devert has suggested that negate the effects of grounding - and that placebo/expectation bias is only a small part of the positive experience.
Despite my overwhelming positive experiences, I have had a couple of dead ends (grounding my prev Tom Evans Groove plus SRX phono stage, and trial on Atlantis add-on box). This proves a few things - as w/all things audio, YMMV - there may be electrical install design reasons as Devert has suggested that negate the effects of grounding - and that placebo/expectation bias is only a small part of the positive experience.
I can't help you with personal experience having had an Audience Aspect AR8 in my system for a few years and that does make a difference and is very helpful in serving also as a distribution block.
In considering the choice between the Cleanus and the Atlantis box you should take into account how good or bad your main's supply is.The limited no of reports I have heard re Cleanus over here have been in respect of people with problems over the quality of their mains supply, If yours is not a problem then I would guess that the Atlantis would be better and.of course, vice versa.
That is the reason why I am leaning toward the Atlantis Tellus. Power to my system goes through a 10kVA balanced isolation transformer and other power conditioners that I have tried have proven to be ineffective. On the other hand, the principle on which the Cleanus operates might well be different from that of the conditioners I have tried.
My mains is simply AWFUL, nominal voltage pre-balanced power varying +/- 10% to 15% every moment!!! No high end component can cope w.these swings. Down to only +/- 0.25% post-balanced power. Entreq grounding is the icing on the cake. I suspect Cleanus will complete the spell of balanced power-grounding synergy. I do feel inherently this is going to be more fruitful than just adding more grounding capacity via Atlantis Tellus.
My voltage on the other hand is very stable. I have a digital voltage monitor plugged in an outlet (on a line that does not go through the transformer) and the fluctuation is between 118-122 volts. I am in a suburban area and the street transformer is only a few meters away from my home.
Dm, I suspect then that more grounding via Atlantis Tellus is the way to go for you - your incoming power is rel uncorrupted, but components may be pumping out a greater proportion of nasties. It's critical if you go this route you use Atlantis ground leads - Lloyd LL21 felt that the cables had the edge over the box.
In my case, the mains side of things has needed !major! intervention, and I suspect Cleanus will give me another 10% boost.
"Many Roads To Nirvana" - aka YMMV.
In my case, the mains side of things has needed !major! intervention, and I suspect Cleanus will give me another 10% boost.
"Many Roads To Nirvana" - aka YMMV.
On the basis of that and your response to Spirit I would go for the Atlantis, but if you could have a home demo of both that should give you a conclusive answer.
This is very simple stuff based on Ohm's Law.
Long before I'd put $15K into these boxes and cables, I'd hire an electrician with a ground resistance test meter to check my ground rod and measure the resistance on one of the Entreq boxes.
Has anyone measured the resistance on the $129. Eartha copper cable verses the $1639. Atlantis?
The standard length cables are only 1.65 meters long, do you think there's a big enought difference in resistance to justify the $1.5K difference in price? These are ground wires, not signal cables.
You can buy 24 AWG solid silver cotton insulated wire for $8.99/foot.
It's not magic.
I
I'm not overly concerned about these theories as I have no reference or training in that area and how it relates to audio fidelity. I am relying on my own actual experience. What I can say to you is...until you hear it for yourself in your own system, your educated speculation is moot.
I'm not overly concerned about these theories as I have no reference or training in that area and how it relates to audio fidelity. I am relying on my own actual experience. What I can say to you is...until you hear it for yourself in your own system, your educated speculation is moot.
Oh please...go bark up another tree. How's your audio biz treating you ? Seems to me, someone in the business should be above the fray (professionalism)....I guess that is not your biz model...lol
obviously cannot speak for Rockitman, but in my case yes. in fact, even better than blind...NO ONE knew a change had been made. It happened by itself.
I found one day the system did not seem right...a little off, but thought nothing of it. After a number of CDs i was irritated and thought it might be older tubes, or something...eventually discovered one of the spades in the back of the Troy had become loose and dislodged. As soon as i tightened everything up, better...within about 20 minutes, the system was back. Now i quickly check all my connections once a week.
i think the ultimate blind test has been done! Without even knowing it had been disconnected, i suspected something was wrong with the system and discovered the Troy had been partly disconnected! In any event, if you ever try it, i think you will find it is pretty obvious...maybe adding one or 2 cables is more subtle...but not the whole system. Besides, when you disconnect...it takes a LONG time to come back fully and since i am totally satisfied, i intend to leave it as is.
Lloyd, just forget the double blind trial malarkey. There is part science/part expectation bias/part familiarity/part YMMV/part open mindedness/part belief etc etc going on w/all this, tbh in all audio, and human experience generally. Science/psychology in a fight to the death! As I said to Keith, and he pointedly never responds directly to ANY of my points, just repeats the tired party line, he should be stocking the best measuring equipment only, at price levels that people would flock to his showroom i.e. Technics SL1200 tt/Denon 103, 80s 1st generation phillips cdp, 70s/80s Yamaha receivers, Cerwin Vega spkrs. All this stuff I'm sure measure beautifully, and de facto MUST sound better than many high end brands. No, he sells uber brands, because guess what, the stuff appeals to our expectation bias more than the list I've mentioned. At the very least he should consider in the high end going for Devialet and Magico whose measurements are on the button. Or even Halcro amps. My guess is he might hate the sound, but why? The science of measurements "tell" him it's a perfect sound. Surely, what he likes can't deviate from science? DUH!!!!!
A similar experience a few days back , after some cable swapping , housekeeping ... Sat down for a listen . Couldn't get into the music , something just seemed off . Had accidentally knocked out the ground wire loose from the built in ground post behind the DAC , attached it back and to my relief normalcy was restored . Dread to even think of going back , to listening without the magic of system ground .
I have a dedicated, separate meter, three phase power supply, to my music room.
I use a Cleanus, and have tried an Atlantis, with my Silver Tellius, and I kept the Cleanus, and returned the Atlantis.
Yes, it made a difference, but not enough to justify the cost, in my system.
"This is a quote, from the Entreq website
Everything starts with the wallsocket !
Actually you ARE indeed listening to your wall outlet."
Keith, my list stuff will measure pretty close to yours, but will sound nothing the same. I never saw a badly measuring ATC, Devialet, Magico, Halcro etc, let alone technics SL1200, Cerwin Vega. You're just as prone to expectation bias as the rest of us. Nothing wrong w/that. And Ked will argue all day w/you you're just playing at playing music by not going down the digital mch route. Pot, Black, as you argue the toss w/him.
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