Entreq Tellus grounding

[Barry2013]

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your sharing too.

I have not tried the apollo, but found the atlantis exquistely rich and tonally saturated over the silver ertha or any other silver wire, i tried some duelund silver wire and it was not even close! I did find easily find a difference with any combination, but it with the right cable that made everything fall into place beautifully.

Strangely, this beautiful right natural sound was not obtained by the silver tellus and atlantis and another isolated minimus seems to give an overall purity to the sound over a single silver tellus which always had more grip and control to the sound, better staging and more clarity.... tonally, it was leaner though.

Just wondering is there any personal description of the sonic traits between apollo and atlantis or even the copper variants from your comparisons, as i really dont intend to spend that much again for the expensive ertha if i were to add another box.

That's why i wonder why the tripoint cables cost so much, there is a trick in the setting up of grounding devices as the cables are that important as a grounding system that these manufacturers dare ask the outrageous prices for just the cables. Many have added bigger or multiple boxes with the basic cables... but adding all apollos or atlantis costs a fairly large amount. It seems you have experienced all these combinations.

Btw, for those asking, the new series 2 is just a redesign of the wooden connector which is to give better fit for a wider range of rca sockets which the series I had some issues with certain rca sockets.

Thanks for that.
Although there are many constants with the Entreq grounding I am aware that different systems seem to suit different combinations better than others. For example Roy Gregory preferred the copper earth cables to his amps which I think from memory were Pass Labs.Like wise with the Atlantis which can produce an unbalanced sound and I am not aware of any golden rule. It's a suck it and see operation, but the Apollo can give a more organic sound compared to the Atlantis in some systems.
I don't know whether you have enough Entreq components to try grounding the negative amp speaker terminals to two Silver Minimus. That's my most recent Entreq iteration and it has been really successful as I noted in my earlier post and I understand that has been the widespread experience around the world.I was surprised at the extent of the improvement despite all the other grounding including that of the amp through a line input.
Certainly worth trying and prioritising. I use Apollo earths for that but have not yet tried it with Atlantis but will probably try that at some stage.
I don't criticise Tripoint users but in my experience the Entreq range is very cost effective, user friendly and lends itself to incremental upgrading more easily than the Tripoints.

 

[Barry2013]

As much as this product does change the sonics and offer large improvements, to what extent and combination is a very difficult to answer and yes, one should have a test to see if it obtains the improvement for a rather significant outlay.

Shipping for even the small box just isnt economical from your perspective or a dealers and the the margins over the small boxes. as for the large ones, even carrying it from a dealers to your setup is a pain.

The best bet would be to just get just a mini, or silver mini and build around that, i believe it would be much more useful from a total improvement of your system is being able to loan the better ertha cables and just forget about the bigger boxes as shipping, if both ways, totally impracticable in your situation. Or spend that money improving the system with other tweaks or new components.

Unless you already cant find ways to improve your system, that's where i think looking at the bigger boxes and more cable would fit in. From what i see, the packages to start recommended is the silver mini and apollo cable - guess it is the best bang for buck improvement even over a tellus and copper ertha.

Agreed Fiddle Faddle.
I have not heard of anyone preferring the Minimus to the Silver Minimus and if you had to choose I think it would be very unlikely indeed for the base Minimus to outperform the Silver Minimus. Obviously if you are able to try both you can compare the two in your system which would be ideal, but if it becomes a choice and resources permit I am pretty sure that the Silver Minimus and Konstantin earth would work best.

 

[CKKeung]

Olympus Tellus got a most praising review in one of the two most authoritative hifi magazines in Hong Kong.

Very similar in size, weight & price to Troy Signature.
Entreq is catching up! Will the performance be on par? haha
Net price in Hong Kong is USD10k!

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

Great news. The distributer /dealer has gotten back to me and I am free to audition the Minimus Copper and Minimus Silver side by side for two weeks and return the one I do not want. The unit I return will end up becoming his official demonstration unit and then I will buy a second brand new box of whichever box I decide to keep. So now I have complete flexibility to own either two silvers, two coppers or one silver and one copper. Both will use the Eartha Konstantin as that is the budget limit for the cable side of things - the next cables up are about $150 more each - so $300 more just to get the next cable up in the range.

Anyway, as for the boxes, what a relief. I get to do highly detailed side by side listening tests so I know I will end up with the best possible combination for my money. And I've decided if for some reason the cheaper Minimus Coppers work synergise better in my system, I'll probably buy something down the track like an Akiko AC Tuning stick to try on a spare power outlet (maybe on the Gigawatt) with some of the cash saved.

I will report back once I've thoroughly tested the silver versus copper so I can add my observations to what is already a pretty exhaustive thread. He is awaiting stock replenishment so I just have to patiently twiddle my thumbs for the time being.

 

[Barry2013]

That is great news and I am pleased for you.
Do let us know the outcome.
Happy listening.

 

[justubes]

FF, as you have considered invested into entreq, if you have some nice silver wires that you can try or something like the Duelund bare silverwire which is reasonably priced and nice sounding wire to test and compare.

I found that using my spare silver wire which was intended to link the grounds on my streamer and dac was deloyed and got excellent results with clarity and details which was very evident and works with the entreq.

What i found with the silver eartha was a more organic sound and widerstaging, but less focussed and delinated sound. Note i am still running it together with the atlantis ertha.

I even found some cheap belden soilid copper mains cable to offer improvements with the 2nd entreq box giving a less detailed as compared to the silver wires.

I have nt tested additional ertha apollo or altantis as the costs is rather insensible for just a grounding cable. What the apollos (based on Barry's feedback) to the atlantis is what possibly a very synergistic match that gave a very musical and rich presentation using entreq products together. Note that other silver cable gave very obvious improvements as well, but was just less beautiful and musical in my system.

If you have access to lots of solid 16 or there abouts silver/copper cable, you may possibly find one similar to what entreq sells at a fraction of the price, imho. However, it is just too much work as well and possibly take too much effort and time to find a synergistic match of generic cables over the erthas which didnt want to get into.

There was a forumer who even used some nordorst valhalla speaker cables to attach the entreqs. The sonic signature of the cable used together with the various entreq boxes would give you a different sound. It is just a matter of numerous trial and errors testing. Even using a bare ended wire connected of touching different connections or different parts of the chassis produces a different effect.

I like what i am hearing now with my silver minimus and ertha and for the time being decided to leave it as it is as there are some many combinations which involves too much work and frustration performing these trials that i just want to get on with enjoying music.

 

[Calle_jr]

I have tested quite a lot of Entreq products on different places and combinations.
But I never connected an earth box to the minus pole of the speakers.
I have done that now!

I hooked up one Entreq Silver Minimus with the new copper cable Eartha Konstantin to the speaker out minus pole terminal on the monoblocks.
So, left and right channel gets one earth purifying box each;

 

[Calle_jr]

Unfortunately, the effects were at least as good as those I experience from my permanent signal and power earthing to an Entreq Tellus

For the cd input I can't notice any difference I think, and that source is already very quiet. But for the phono input, the noise level was substantially lowered without any noticeable filtering. As you can imagine, I experience a more natural timbre.
And I'm not super sensitive to hum (being a long time tube and vinyl guy).

 

[Barry2013]

Unfortunately, the effects were at least as good as those I experience from my permanent signal and power earthing to an Entreq Tellus

For the cd input I can't notice any difference I think, and that source is already very quiet. But for the phono input, the noise level was substantially lowered without any noticeable filtering. As you can imagine, I experience a more natural timbre.
And I'm not super sensitive to hum (being a long time tube and vinyl guy).

Thanks for the post and the great photos.
It is good to read of another example of successful Entreq amp grounding. It certainly made a significant improvement to my system.
Not sure what signal cables you are using but I have found that the combination of Entreq grounding with their signal cables which you also ground is also significant. Upgrading from Konstantin rca i/cs to balanced Apollo i/cs gave me a big jump in performance but they are expensive.

 

[Jazzhead]

@calle... Those are some serious feet under the Minimus . Could we have some more info on them ? Thanks

 

[Calle_jr]

Thanks for the post and the great photos.
It is good to read of another example of successful Entreq amp grounding. It certainly made a significant improvement to my system.
Not sure what signal cables you are using but I have found that the combination of Entreq grounding with their signal cables which you also ground is also significant. Upgrading from Konstantin rca i/cs to balanced Apollo i/cs gave me a big jump in performance but they are expensive.

Thanks,
All ic and speaker cables are Cardas Golden Ref.
Maybe I get a chance to compare with Entreq sometime. I never did that.

 

[Calle_jr]

@calle... Those are some serious feet under the Minimus . Could we have some more info on them ? Thanks

Oh, the feet are from Verity Audio. I modified the base of Sarastro, so I don't use them for the speakers now.
They are very good for height adjustment.

 

[ddk]

Unfortunately, the effects were at least as good as those I experience from my permanent signal and power earthing to an Entreq Tellus

For the cd input I can't notice any difference I think, and that source is already very quiet. But for the phono input, the noise level was substantially lowered without any noticeable filtering. As you can imagine, I experience a more natural timbre.
And I'm not super sensitive to hum (being a long time tube and vinyl guy).

Hi Calle,

I continue to read praise after praise of the product here but my own experience is somewhat different, specially with analog. I'm wondering if the variable here is just the system and/or the electrical plant which can contribute to the system noise. I'm not looking for any measurements just what you perceived sonically, any downside (nothing is for free!) and your starting point.

david

 

[LL21]

Hi Calle,

I continue to read praise after praise of the product here but my own experience is somewhat different, specially with analog. I'm wondering if the variable here is just the system and/or the electrical plant which can contribute to the system noise. I'm not looking for any measurements just what you perceived sonically, any downside (nothing is for free!) and your starting point.

david

Hi David,

I have continued to read your posts with great respect and downright admiration. I am going to jump in here and speak for myself about Tripoint (and Entreq) and say your words asking about "...your starting point" may be key here given your own 'starting point'.

From 'nothing', no balanced power, a few dedicated lines in an apartment building, lots of noise/grunge, the 2 products (Tripoint and Entreq) have done wonders for me. But reading your own post about the remarkable degrees of effort you have put towards grounding/this particular element of system-building, i have to say in some respects, i am not surprised that you may have surpassed the ability of these products to enhance your system.

They are designed to do some things extraordinarily well...and imho, they do. But given the extreme extreme efforts you described you went thru with grounding, i have to wonder if, in fact, adding a box (even a big one) might not actually be counterproductive in your particular circumstances. It may be akin (as Miguel of Tripoint would advise against), of taking his best grounding cables...and then tying them to a grounding post which is also tied to his lesser grounding cables....something he says just makes things worse.

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

As you can imagine, I experience a more natural timbre.
And I'm not super sensitive to hum (being a long time tube and vinyl guy).

Thanks for the info and particularly the photos - they are great. It's almost like "spot all the Entreq boxes and win a prize" This is one room I would very much like to experience, if not for the quality of the system and the associated Entreq setup, but to listen to the Mercury Living Presence Chadwick LP sitting way up there on top of the shelf! That was the best MLP LP cover ever and it is one of my favourite Mercuries! (catalogue number SR90018 for anyone wondering).

 

[ddk]

Hi David,

I have continued to read your posts with great respect and downright admiration. I am going to jump in here and speak for myself about Tripoint (and Entreq) and say your words asking about "...your starting point" may be key here given your own 'starting point'.

From 'nothing', no balanced power, a few dedicated lines in an apartment building, lots of noise/grunge, the 2 products (Tripoint and Entreq) have done wonders for me. But reading your own post about the remarkable degrees of effort you have put towards grounding/this particular element of system-building, i have to say in some respects, i am not surprised that you may have surpassed the ability of these products to enhance your system.

They are designed to do some things extraordinarily well...and imho, they do. But given the extreme extreme efforts you described you went thru with grounding, i have to wonder if, in fact, adding a box (even a big one) might not actually be counterproductive in your particular circumstances. It may be akin (as Miguel of Tripoint would advise against), of taking his best grounding cables...and then tying them to a grounding post which is also tied to his lesser grounding cables....something he says just makes things worse.

Hi Lloyd,

Its the grunge/noise comment that I was interested in, I don't use any transformers, conditioners, etc. either. I'm assuming that it cleaned up the noise, were there any sonic penalties or all positive? What changed in the quality of the sound, specifically tone & timbre? I know all your components so it would be helpful if I understand how it changed, thanks.

david

 

[Calle_jr]

Hi Calle,

I continue to read praise after praise of the product here but my own experience is somewhat different, specially with analog. I'm wondering if the variable here is just the system and/or the electrical plant which can contribute to the system noise. I'm not looking for any measurements just what you perceived sonically, any downside (nothing is for free!) and your starting point.

david

Hi David,
Thanks for your words. You are far from alone in your experience.
I stick to comment the specific loudspeaker earthing. At least to start with.
I have a dedicated line and both analog and digital connected to that.
The digital is silent despite quite high efficiency speakers.
So, the noise is from turntable, stepup and/or built-in phono.
I have tried repositioning the stepup (Lyra Erodion), and all possible earthing (fix, floating, no earthing etc).
So, it was not bad before, but the Minimus boxes lowered the noise in a way I didn't manage to achieve before.

 

[Calle_jr]

the Mercury Living Presence Chadwick LP sitting way up there on top of the shelf! That was the best MLP LP cover ever and it is one of my favourite Mercuries! (catalogue number SR90018 for anyone wondering).

Thanks Fiddle Faddle,
It's actually the 1958 us original.
I agree, this one and Black maskers / Tabuh-Tabuhan SR90103 are extra ordinary covers.

 

[Calle_jr]

I'm assuming that it cleaned up the noise, were there any sonic penalties or all positive? What changed in the quality of the sound, specifically tone & timbre?

There usually is. Like putting a blanket on the speakers.
It was not like that with the Minimus this time for me.
I am not so sensitive to grunt/hum, rather that than the boring blanket.
But, when done in the right way (whatever that is), the timbre of course appears clearer.
I did not experience it was the record noise that got filtered. In that case I would remove it.

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd,

Its the grunge/noise comment that I was interested in, I don't use any transformers, conditioners, etc. either. I'm assuming that it cleaned up the noise, were there any sonic penalties or all positive? What changed in the quality of the sound, specifically tone & timbre? I know all your components so it would be helpful if I understand how it changed, thanks.

david

Hi David,

I pulled up my old notes about this and here is the synopsis of putting and removing the Tripoint and Entreq grounding 3 times in my system. Each time i put the grounding system back in:

Clarity of Notes
- the best test for me is choral music. Can i understand the lyrics in the background? With the system in, i understood more words

Purity of tone
- I did not perceive changes to the tone of stringed instruments, other than they seem less mechanical/stiff. Additionally, i did notice that individual stringed notes were more intense, more 'pure' to use an oft-overused term. The note 'wavered' less which sometimes happens i suspect when there is grunge in the system obscuring the original signal

Delineation of Music Lines
- Here was a big improvement. I found that deep bass music often has loads of individual themes, musical lines and beats running throughout it. Generally, each track laid down has its own beat, often synchopated or in some other fashion related to the other beats on the track. I did not only find it easier to follow multiple beats...i actually discovered that there were several MORE beats from 'obscure pings, fizzes, whooses' that i had originally thought were just in the background...but i now realized actually had their own definitive beat in time and in synch with the rest of the track.

- That was a wonderful discovery.

Natural
- Things overall definitely seem less mechanical; not just greater ease of presentation; but in truth, notes also had a beginning, middle and end now, fully rounded rather than truncated on either side. This even applies to electronic music, where the beats and sounds are proper sound effects and beats rather than random scratches, or sizzles

Those are my notes that i came across. More on this later if i find more...and let me know if any of this was unclear.