Ethernet cables to and from your switch?

[Antonio66]

We are using a generic shielded cable from the router to a Cisco 2960 switch and a AQ Vodka from switch to streamer. We have been looking at replacing the switch and have been advised to run a short length of unshielded CAT6 from the switch to the streamer. The reasoning behind this, shielded cable overrides the galvanic isolation, negating the benefit of using a switch. Yet I read that one should always use the best quality cable you own between the switch and streamer, so your thoughts and cables used would be welcome.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...it's fine to run shielded cable if you have other considerations that apply, so long as the cable has a "floating" shield: that is, it is not connected at both ends.

 

[Antonio66]

@MarkusBarkus Thanks for your reply, I don't know how to tell if the shield is 'floating' on the Vodka cable. I've ordered 0.5m of CAT6 cable and will use this between the switch and the streamer (Antipodes K50) and put the Vodka cable between the router and switch.
Still interested in cables others are using though.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...after various optical configurations over the years, I have recently been using a Blue Jeans Cable Cat6 ethernet cable for a 35' run from router to server.

About a month ago, I added a new switch which uses a DAC cable from switch to server.

Blue Jeans Cable is reliable and tested before shipment. Highly recommended.

 

[Antonio66]

@MarkusBarkus I only ever read good reports about BJC, I will bear them in mind for a future purchase should I need more cable. I only need fairly short lengths, 1 - 1.5m from router to switch and 0.5m switch to streamer. I'd be more interested to know thoughts on using non shielded cable between switch and streamer, and what others are using. You say you use a DAC cable, what type of cable is that since there are many input options on my dac?

 

[audiobomber]

Manufacturers recommend CAT6 cables so as to eliminate the possibility of a shield-tied cable messing up the sound. There are ways around this and worthwhile to experiment, IME.

I have some BJC CAT6a cables which are shielded but the shield is not tied to ground. I use this cable in non-critical areas. It is extremely well made and has guaranteed specs. Unfortunately it does not sound as good as some of my other cables.

All ethernet cables from Audioquest, the Melco C100 and most likely others have the shield tied at one end only. I've modified STP and S/FTP cables by removing the gold wrap from one end, leaving only the non-conductive plastic. I've modified CAT8 cables by replacing one metal RJ45 connector with a generic plastic connector. I had one of my Furutech cables modified, upgrading both connectors with Telegartners and lifting the ground on one end. In some cases I use a LAN Isolator to break the ground connection, a strategy also used by SOtM for their ethernet cables.

Sometimes I use a shield-tied cable, with precautions. The EtherRegen B-side port is one situation where this is acceptable, I use a shield-tied cable between my switch and FMC, but both devices are electrically connected to the same ground point. Also, I only allow one cable with a shield to be connected to each device. Other connected cables are UTP or have the shield ground broken by one of the methods described above, which blocks shield current coming from a third device. I do all this because in my experience STP and S/FTP cables generally sound better than the many generic UTP cables I've tried. I have no doubt there are CAT6 cables with elevated sound quality and price, which I have not tried.

 

[jasbirnandra]

@Antonio66 if you are really keen to improve your sound go for the Authentic Audio image cables I was very skeptical about cables I had a wireworld starlight ethernet cable connected to my Lumin U2mini but I do one thing at a time to understand the progress of sound if I put anything in my setup I do it piece by piece to understand what the upgrade has bought, a difference or not, so then I added a sotm switch things improved, then I bought the AAI ethernet cable 1 meter so I took the wireworld to the switch from the router and installed the AAI from switch to streamer and WOOOW this cable from AAI not just some difference but a huge difference as if I had changed a component the sound was so pleasing that I went ahead and ordered their USB cable and currently waiting for the USB.
Note: I also did a LPS to my Lumin streamer and switch everything and every penny spent was worth the upgrade so now you go ahead and solve your puzzle I just shared my experience so someone can benefit from my experiment.
Enjoy your music.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

You say you use a DAC cable, what type of cable is that

...the terminology can cause confusion. In this case, DAC is Direct Attach Cable. It is not related to the DAC device; it is a cable type Taiko has used in their new switch (although it is not limited to Taiko or their switch application).

What Is DAC Cable, Direct Attach SFP+ Cable Passive vs Active | FS Community

What is DAC cable, do you know 10G/25G/40G/100G twinax cable specification, direct attach sfp+ cable passive vs active, DAC cable vs. AOC cable, direct attach cable vs. optical transceiver module, all can be found in this post.

community.fs.com

 

[Cellcbern]

FYI:

Pink Faun Digital Interlink LAN

To many, high-end Ethernet cables are still a controversial subject. While plenty of experiments have proven to me that their influence is not imaginary, it sure is annoying that, so far, we have not been able to come up with a proper scientific explanation for why these cables can alter the...

www.hifi-advice.com

 

[Antonio66]

@MarkusBarkus Thanks, I've never heard of DAC cable before, my concern is the connectors look different so I assume alterations have to be made somewhere along the line. You didn't say which switch you are using.

@jasbirnandra I've never heard of AAi cables ( I do live a sheltered life ). I read a review by Alpha Audio, and he states these cables are fully shielded, although I am sure they are great cables.

@Cellcbern I have heard of these cables, and like the review, but again I'm sure these will be fully shielded. Before using a switch we much preferred the AQ Vodka than ANother cable going directly from router to streamer, I believe this really needs to be fully shielded. Now the switch is in place, does the cable need to be shielded from switch to streamer, or can this negate the use of the switch?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...the switch I recently added is the Taiko switch. It is meant to be a tight integration between the Taiko server with a new internal NIC board, and the upstream connection. A new router will also be released soon to extend the Taiko environment further upstream.

By way of summary: the DAC cable is a pre-assembled copper cable terminated at both ends with, essentially, an SFP. It fits into an SFP cage.

 

[audiobomber]

@MarkusBarkus I believe this really needs to be fully shielded. Now the switch is in place, does the cable need to be shielded from switch to streamer, or can this negate the use of the switch?

Depending on the grounding between switch and router, a shield-tied cable could cause a problem. You seem to like Audioquest, so you could just choose another cable from their line, which would avoid a grounding issue. Or try the Melco C100 or some other cable, which is also grounded at one end only.
PS You can tell if a shield is grounded at both ends by testing between the metal parts of the connectors with an ohmmeter (or continuity tester).

 

[agisthos]

The Melco C100 is awesome and far better than BJC cables, and my 4x more costly Nordost Heimdall Ethernet cables.

But I don’t have any recent experience with newly released Ethernet cables, so don’t know how it would fare against them. But for its low price it must be hard to beat.

 

[Antonio66]

On the advice of a friend I purchased a cheap unshielded CAT6 cable which replaced our Vodka between switch and streamer for the weekend. Today we changed back to the Vodka, the result was positive and the Vodka will be staying put at least for now. We have a Network Acoustic Muon arriving in the next two weeks to try, but that is another story. Thank you everyone who has read and replied to my thread.

 

[Antonio66]

We received the NA Muon and have it playing in the system now. Earlier today we swopped and changed cables and although the Muon was preferred (very subtle improvement) on some tracks, on others they lost their sparkle and attack, so the Muon will be returned with the extra cable it came with. We have now ordered a Melco C100 as recommended by @agisthos and will be using the Vodka cable between router and switch and the Melco between switch and streamer. I'm afraid some of these finer nuances are lost on our old ears these days and although we haven't heard the Melco cable we are very hopeful it will be ok. We did learn today that the Vodka cable improved over a cheaper ethernet cable when we replaced between router and switch.

 

[agisthos]

Devices like the Muon will need break in, so I would not dismiss it just yet. Try the comparison again in a week with 50 hours on it, preferably 100 hours.

 

[Atriya]

Manufacturers recommend CAT6 cables so as to eliminate the possibility of a shield-tied cable messing up the sound. There are ways around this and worthwhile to experiment, IME.

I have some BJC CAT6a cables which are shielded but the shield is not tied to ground. I use this cable in non-critical areas. It is extremely well made and has guaranteed specs. Unfortunately it does not sound as good as some of my other cables.

All ethernet cables from Audioquest, the Melco C100 and most likely others have the shield tied at one end only. I've modified STP and S/FTP cables by removing the gold wrap from one end, leaving only the non-conductive plastic. I've modified CAT8 cables by replacing one metal RJ45 connector with a generic plastic connector. I had one of my Furutech cables modified, upgrading both connectors with Telegartners and lifting the ground on one end. In some cases I use a LAN Isolator to break the ground connection, a strategy also used by SOtM for their ethernet cables.

Sometimes I use a shield-tied cable, with precautions. The EtherRegen B-side port is one situation where this is acceptable, I use a shield-tied cable between my switch and FMC, but both devices are electrically connected to the same ground point. Also, I only allow one cable with a shield to be connected to each device. Other connected cables are UTP or have the shield ground broken by one of the methods described above, which blocks shield current coming from a third device. I do all this because in my experience STP and S/FTP cables generally sound better than the many generic UTP cables I've tried. I have no doubt there are CAT6 cables with elevated sound quality and price, which I have not tried.

This was very informative to me, especially about using an isolator to break the ground; thanks!

I have a setup with:

1. Server (noisy laptop) TO Switch: Melco C100 (ground end at laptop; floating end at switch)
2. Switch TO Streamer: Shield-tied cable (Moon Audio Silver Dragon)

(Nothing else is connected to the switch. The switch is a cheap one, but powered with a 5V LPS.)

Does this setup seem fine? Should it be OK to use the Silver Dragon between switch & streamer in this case, given that I have (only) a C100 between switch & laptop?

I also own a LAN isolator (by Pink Faun). I'm not sure of the best position for it:

Possibility 1: Where the signal enters the switch, i.e., floating end of the Melco C100.
Possibility 2: Where the signal enters the streamer, i.e., end of the Silver Dragon.

Or maybe a LAN isolator would be redundant here, because the switch itself provides galvanic isolation, and there are no ground issues because of the C100?

 

[audiobomber]

This was very informative to me, especially about using an isolator to break the ground; thanks!

I have a setup with:

1. Server (noisy laptop) TO Switch: Melco C100 (ground end at laptop; floating end at switch)
2. Switch TO Streamer: Shield-tied cable (Moon Audio Silver Dragon)

(Nothing else is connected to the switch. The switch is a cheap one, but powered with a 5V LPS.)

Does this setup seem fine? Should it be OK to use the Silver Dragon between switch & streamer in this case, given that I have (only) a C100 between switch & laptop?

I also own a LAN isolator (by Pink Faun). I'm not sure of the best position for it:

Possibility 1: Where the signal enters the switch, i.e., floating end of the Melco C100.
Possibility 2: Where the signal enters the streamer, i.e., end of the Silver Dragon.

Or maybe a LAN isolator would be redundant here, because the switch itself provides galvanic isolation, and there are no ground issues because of the C100?

There are no grounding issues at either end of the Melco. There may be a shield ground issue between the switch and streamer. As far as I know, ethernet galvanic isolation is not 100%, does not block ground plane current, and does not block ground potential on the shield.

The switch is grounded, assuming the LPS has a three-prong plug. Is the streamer also three prong? Are they plugged into the same conditioner or power bar? If yes, there should not be a problem using a shield-tied cable. If no, you should try the Pink Faun between the switch and streamer.

 

[Atriya]

There are no grounding issues at either end of the Melco. There may be a shield ground issue between the switch and streamer. As far as I know, ethernet galvanic isolation is not 100%, does not block ground plane current, and does not block ground potential on the shield.

The switch is grounded, assuming the LPS has a three-prong plug. Is the streamer also three prong? Are they plugged into the same conditioner or power bar? If yes, there should not be a problem using a shield-tied cable. If no, you should try the Pink Faun between the switch and streamer.

Thanks!

The LPS (powering the switch) and the streamer (which is also a DAC & amp: an all-in-one) both have three-prong plugs, but they are plugged into the same 2-socket wall outlet.

I put the Pink Faun at the LAN input of the streamer.

 

[audiobomber]

Thanks!

The LPS (powering the switch) and the streamer (which is also a DAC & amp: an all-in-one) both have three-prong plugs, but they are plugged into the same 2-socket wall outlet.

I put the Pink Faun at the LAN input of the streamer.

Since both switch and streamer are grounded and fed from the same receptacle, I don't see a grounding concern. The Pink Faun isolator may help or not, but it is not needed for good grounding.