Ethernet Switch for only one component?

[Zuman]

I run Roon ROCK on a dedicated NUC and use a NAD M50.2 server/player as the endpoint. I could connect them both via Ethernet cable to the two ports on my eero router, but the sound is better when I connect the eero to a switch and then also plug in both the NUC and the NAD to the switch. There is significant improvement to the soundstage and much smoother, better integrated tonality than when I plug them straight into the eero.
I was told that connecting the NAD and the NUC through the switch instead of through the eero router (an inherently noisier, more complex device) allows for a simpler and cleaner signal path between the two. I'm not a tech, so I don't know if that's correct, but I do know what sounds better.

 

[markramler]

Hi, is there a switch for one component only? Also interested in peoples findings - do they make a noticable difference? From what I understand the switch would be placed in the music room, between the ethernet socket leading to the streamer/streaming bridge. iMac (Roon Core) via ethernet into > router via ethernet into > Music Room via ethernet into > switch? > via ethernet into streamer/streaming bridge via coax/USB etc into > DAC... correct - so there is only one signal going into and one signal going out of the Switch... all switches have multiple inputs and outputs though... I only need one.

Any suggestions?

EdisCreation makes the FireBox II which filters and reclocks the signal. It can be used for one component or in conjunction with a switch. I find them effective.

 

[keithc]

EdisCreation makes the FireBox II which filters and reclocks the signal. It can be used for one component or in conjunction with a switch. I find them effective.

The Fiberbox looks really interesting. Your signature also includes the Muon; do you use the NA Muon together w/ the Ediscreation stuff, and how?

 

[markramler]

The Fiberbox looks really interesting. Your signature also includes the Muon; do you use the NA Muon together w/ the Ediscreation stuff, and how?

Yes the Muon to my server. I find both to be additive and effective The FiberBox for digital noise and the Muon for high res noise.

 

[skinnyfla]

... I`ll just "copy and paste" my thoughts/ideas from another thread, to let you know waht is going through my head and maybe you can give me furtehr input/information as to how to achieve improvement... especially the question which way to go and if playing/serving files straight from a dedicated server that does not pass the home network, does a switch make any sense at all?

Here it goes...

Currently I use Roon as Software. I run Roon on an iMac. I also use the iMac for storage. I either buy files as download or I rip my CDs using a simple CD-ROM drive and dBpoweramp. I rip CDs to lossless WAV as perfect rip. Streaming is only secondary as I mainly use Qobuz/Tidal to explore new music, but if I like it, I always buy it - be it as CD or download (preferred always vinyl).

So basically my Mac is my server/storage/Roon core all at once.

I run an ethernet cable from my iMac to my router (nothing fancy or audiophile) and from my router another ethernet connection to my music room. From there the ethernet socket runs a cheapish Audioquest cable into my Auralic Aries G1 - which is my streaming bridge. That runs into the DAC via Coax and then things go their way (McIntosh pre/poweramp and then Wilson Audio Sasha DAWs).

I was thinking about either improving the existing stuff by adding a switch and investing in a better DAC or replacing that whole setup “before” the DAC and buying an Antipodes k22.

So either keeping things the way they are and eliminating jitter in the home network by installing a switch in the music room - OR - throwing out the Mac and the Auralic completely and replacing both with an Antipodes k22 as Roon Core/Server/Bridge, placing the Antipodes right in my music room, storing music locally on the Antipodes and running into the DAC straight from there.

Also I would suspect this to be the way to avoid noise/jitter, currently entering due to the signal path I have at the moment with the iMac running through the router and all that. With the Antipodes I would only need the ethernet connection to run Roon on the Antipodes - but as it feeds the DAC straight, no more need for a switch etc. - right?

I don`t do DSP or other audio processing and I will store about 2-3 TB max.

Basically this should replace my CD player as server/transport.

Really not sure how to go about this and with which product to start with, as I am a vinyl guy mainly...

Happy to hear your thoughts/advice on building a new digital source and how to go about this/where to start/what to start with."

 

[markramler]

... I`ll just "copy and paste" my thoughts/ideas from another thread, to let you know waht is going through my head and maybe you can give me furtehr input/information as to how to achieve improvement... especially the question which way to go and if playing/serving files straight from a dedicated server that does not pass the home network, does a switch make any sense at all?

Here it goes...

Currently I use Roon as Software. I run Roon on an iMac. I also use the iMac for storage. I either buy files as download or I rip my CDs using a simple CD-ROM drive and dBpoweramp. I rip CDs to lossless WAV as perfect rip. Streaming is only secondary as I mainly use Qobuz/Tidal to explore new music, but if I like it, I always buy it - be it as CD or download (preferred always vinyl).

So basically my Mac is my server/storage/Roon core all at once.

I run an ethernet cable from my iMac to my router (nothing fancy or audiophile) and from my router another ethernet connection to my music room. From there the ethernet socket runs a cheapish Audioquest cable into my Auralic Aries G1 - which is my streaming bridge. That runs into the DAC via Coax and then things go their way (McIntosh pre/poweramp and then Wilson Audio Sasha DAWs).

I was thinking about either improving the existing stuff by adding a switch and investing in a better DAC or replacing that whole setup “before” the DAC and buying an Antipodes k22.

So either keeping things the way they are and eliminating jitter in the home network by installing a switch in the music room - OR - throwing out the Mac and the Auralic completely and replacing both with an Antipodes k22 as Roon Core/Server/Bridge, placing the Antipodes right in my music room, storing music locally on the Antipodes and running into the DAC straight from there.

Also I would suspect this to be the way to avoid noise/jitter, currently entering due to the signal path I have at the moment with the iMac running through the router and all that. With the Antipodes I would only need the ethernet connection to run Roon on the Antipodes - but as it feeds the DAC straight, no more need for a switch etc. - right?

I don`t do DSP or other audio processing and I will store about 2-3 TB max.

Basically this should replace my CD player as server/transport.

Really not sure how to go about this and with which product to start with, as I am a vinyl guy mainly...

Happy to hear your thoughts/advice on building a new digital source and how to go about this/where to start/what to start with."

I first upgraded to the Antipodes K50 from a Roon Nucleus. That made a significant difference. Then I upgraded my switch to an audiophile switch with a clock and that resulted in a significant improvement in sound and finally I upgraded my DAC. I stream most of my music so an audiophile switch is important.

 

[skinnyfla]

I first upgraded to the Antipodes K50 from a Roon Nucleus. That made a significant difference. Then I upgraded my switch to an audiophile switch with a clock and that resulted in a significant improvement in sound and finally I upgraded my DAC. I stream most of my music so a audiophile switch is important.

... how would you say it compares to your analog setup/vinyl? Did you ever compare against CD?

 

[markramler]

... how would you say it compares to your analog setup/vinyl? Did you ever compare against CD?

I listen 80% of the time to digital for the ease and selection, but I do not feel I am missing anything. Vinyl may sound a bit more fleshed out and digital may have a lower noise floor when set up properly. I ripped all my CDs to the SSD in my server. The SSD was always superior to the streamed music until I upgraded the switch, PSU, power conditioner and cords, and ethernet cables at the router. Also I upgraded the switch at the server. Now there are no discernible differences with the same recording from the SSD or streamed. It takes time to evaluate changes and continue in steps to improve the sound by lowering digital noise and high res noise. Ethernet cables, power cables both ac and dc make a clearly discernible difference and are more evident when you lower the noise floor.

 

[CKKeung]

I'm a firm audiophile switches believer.

However, although most audiophile switches got one or some of the following features such as good clock, linear psu, noise isolation ...etc, the results of their implementation can be very diff.

Please read this review on a very well-built audiophile switch+clock :

Review: Silent Angel Bonn NX Network Switch & Genesis GX Word Clock - Twittering Machines

Michael Lavorgna's Twittering Machines: HiFi with a twist

twitteringmachines.com

I recommend having a home trial before buying.

 

[Pokey77]

I'm a firm audiophile switches believer.

However, although most audiophile switches got one or some of the following features such as good clock, linear psu, noise isolation ...etc, the results of their implementation can be very diff.

Please read this review on a very well-built audiophile switch+clock :

Review: Silent Angel Bonn NX Network Switch & Genesis GX Word Clock - Twittering Machines

Michael Lavorgna's Twittering Machines: HiFi with a twist

twitteringmachines.com

I recommend having a home trial before buying.

Interesting that Mike Lavorgna published an unfavorable review on this combo.

 

[CKKeung]

Interesting that Mike Lavorgna published an unfavorable review on this combo.

Yes, I myself have not auditioned it yet, so I suggested WBF to listen to them, preferably a home trial.

Currently I stand by the Taiko Extreme Switch, Zayin Audio Stargate Switch and the Esiscreation switches.
I listened to all of them and am using the former two.

 

[skinnyfla]

… am I understanding this correct, that he prefers a 25 USD Trendnet switch (those are also switches that reduce jitter, right?) to the 7500 Silent Angel?

i’m a total newbie to this, so this is me being curious a trying to understand how these things work…

cheers,

 

[wackerd]

Hi, is there a switch for one component only? Also interested in peoples findings - do they make a noticable difference? From what I understand the switch would be placed in the music room, between the ethernet socket leading to the streamer/streaming bridge. iMac (Roon Core) via ethernet into > router via ethernet into > Music Room via ethernet into > switch? > via ethernet into streamer/streaming bridge via coax/USB etc into > DAC... correct - so there is only one signal going into and one signal going out of the Switch... all switches have multiple inputs and outputs though... I only need one.

Any suggestions?

I have made good experiences with a switch just for one component. I use the Ediscreation Fiberbox extreme followed by the Ediscreation Silence Switch. The soundstage and soundquality raised significantly. You can also have a look for Telegaertner and Taikko. Ediscreation recommend to try the switch before or after the Fiberbox. Telegaertner and Taikko are much more expensive, but better? I don't know. The technological details and the usage of OCXO clocks inside Ediscreation devices convinces me.

 

[NigelB]

... I`ll just "copy and paste" my thoughts/ideas from another thread, to let you know waht is going through my head and maybe you can give me furtehr input/information as to how to achieve improvement... especially the question which way to go and if playing/serving files straight from a dedicated server that does not pass the home network, does a switch make any sense at all?

Here it goes...

Currently I use Roon as Software. I run Roon on an iMac. I also use the iMac for storage. I either buy files as download or I rip my CDs using a simple CD-ROM drive and dBpoweramp. I rip CDs to lossless WAV as perfect rip. Streaming is only secondary as I mainly use Qobuz/Tidal to explore new music, but if I like it, I always buy it - be it as CD or download (preferred always vinyl).

So basically my Mac is my server/storage/Roon core all at once.

I run an ethernet cable from my iMac to my router (nothing fancy or audiophile) and from my router another ethernet connection to my music room. From there the ethernet socket runs a cheapish Audioquest cable into my Auralic Aries G1 - which is my streaming bridge. That runs into the DAC via Coax and then things go their way (McIntosh pre/poweramp and then Wilson Audio Sasha DAWs).

I was thinking about either improving the existing stuff by adding a switch and investing in a better DAC or replacing that whole setup “before” the DAC and buying an Antipodes k22.

So either keeping things the way they are and eliminating jitter in the home network by installing a switch in the music room - OR - throwing out the Mac and the Auralic completely and replacing both with an Antipodes k22 as Roon Core/Server/Bridge, placing the Antipodes right in my music room, storing music locally on the Antipodes and running into the DAC straight from there.

Also I would suspect this to be the way to avoid noise/jitter, currently entering due to the signal path I have at the moment with the iMac running through the router and all that. With the Antipodes I would only need the ethernet connection to run Roon on the Antipodes - but as it feeds the DAC straight, no more need for a switch etc. - right?

I don`t do DSP or other audio processing and I will store about 2-3 TB max.

Basically this should replace my CD player as server/transport.

Really not sure how to go about this and with which product to start with, as I am a vinyl guy mainly...

Happy to hear your thoughts/advice on building a new digital source and how to go about this/where to start/what to start with."

Top tip: if you're going to try a switch, don't put it where switches were designed to go!

Standard network switches were designed as port replicators ie. to give you more ports than there are on the back of your router, so they tend to be installed next to the router. For the purposes of improving sound quality, whether we choose an audio-optimised switch or not, this is the worst place to use a network switch; there is no digital magic going on in an Innuos Phoenixnet or Network Acoustics Muon or Reiki Audio SuperSwitch or anything else, it's all about reducing RFI noise accompanying the digital signal so it doesn't get via your streamer to your DAC where it does its sonic mischief. You therefore need to install it:
(a) as close as possible to your streamer so it kills the maximum amount of accumulated RFI noise; ideally 0.5m or if necessary 1m before your streamer
(b) using either an unshielded short cable from switch to streamer or a shielded one you know has the shield grounded only at one end. This stops the shield from acting as an RFI noise conductor and undoing all the goodness of the switch. Ideally you'll install the grounded shield end at the switch and the floating shield end at the streamer. Surprisingly few cable manufacturers specify this, but Melco's C100 is a notable exception and is well-priced.

The whole switches-for-audio thing arose probably arose because someone discovered that a side effect of the digital receive-and-forward functionality of a standard network switch is that it sends the digital frame/packet on to its destination but does not send on the RFI noise which has reached the switch.... unless that noise can travel down the shield of a cable. The audiophile switch bit is then all about exploiting this wonderful side effect but also enhancing it further by minimising the noise the switch circuitry itself produces and by stopping RFI getting into the switch eg through holes in its case or through unused ethernet ports.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Top tip: if you're going to try a switch, don't put it where switches were designed to go!

Standard network switches were designed as port replicators ie. to give you more ports than there are on the back of your router, so they tend to be installed next to the router. For the purposes of improving sound quality, whether we choose an audio-optimised switch or not, this is the worst place to use a network switch; there is no digital magic going on in an Innuos Phoenixnet or Network Acoustics Muon or Reiki Audio SuperSwitch or anything else, it's all about reducing RFI noise accompanying the digital signal so it doesn't get via your streamer to your DAC where it does its sonic mischief. You therefore need to install it:
(a) as close as possible to your streamer so it kills the maximum amount of accumulated RFI noise; ideally 0.5m or if necessary 1m before your streamer
(b) using either an unshielded short cable from switch to streamer or a shielded one you know has the shield grounded only at one end. This stops the shield from acting as an RFI noise conductor and undoing all the goodness of the switch. Ideally you'll install the grounded shield end at the switch and the floating shield end at the streamer. Surprisingly few cable manufacturers specify this, but Melco's C100 is a notable exception and is well-priced.

The whole switches-for-audio thing arose probably arose because someone discovered that a side effect of the digital receive-and-forward functionality of a standard network switch is that it sends the digital frame/packet on to its destination but does not send on the RFI noise which has reached the switch.... unless that noise can travel down the shield of a cable. The audiophile switch bit is then all about exploiting this wonderful side effect but also enhancing it further by minimising the noise the switch circuitry itself produces and by stopping RFI getting into the switch eg through holes in its case or through unused ethernet ports.

Hmmmm there it is.

 

[NigelB]

Hmmmm there it is.

Yep. Anything you’d like me to clarify?

I should add my gratitude and a link (struggling on phone, will update later on laptop) to the person in related thread who pointed out that using a multimeter connected to both metal RJ45 plug cases of any shielded cable you can check for resistance; any non-zero result indicates continuity ie the the two cases are joined by the shield which is not what we want in this specific (switch-to-streamer) use case.

Top tip right there.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Yep. Anything you’d like me to clarify?

I should add my gratitude and a link (struggling on phone, will update later on laptop) to the person in related thread who pointed out that using a multimeter connected to both metal RJ45 plug cases of any shielded cable you can check for resistance; any non-zero result indicates continuity ie the the two cases are joined by the shield which is not what we want in this specific (switch-to-streamer) use case.

Top tip right there.

Current does not flow through fiber so I have zero need, no shielding. Yes I know how to do a continuity test, 101 stuff Nigel. Nothing to clarify all quite simple.

 

[NigelB]

Current does not flow through fiber so I have zero need, no shielding. Yes I know how to do a continuity test, 101 stuff Nigel. Nothing to clarify all quite simple.

Are you all fiber/fibre and no copper then? And you don't therefore use a switch?

 

[wackerd]

EdisCreation makes the FireBox II which filters and reclocks the signal. It can be used for one component or in conjunction with a switch. I find them effective.

Sounds interesting to me. I made similar good experiences with the chain (Standard)-Router => Ediscreation FB extreme => Ediscreation Silent Switch OCXO => Antipodes Streamer. I switched off WiFi and DECT in my Router and use some optimized internal adjustments with respect to high end audio. So far so good. For me is the main question would a NA Muon deliver really significant improvements in addition to my chain? And should it be an option to go further with the Taiko router, for example? As far as I am right, the Taiko router has its own WiFi and just one task: to keep net disturbances out of the following system. I could not find positive infos from people who operate the Taiko in a non-Taiko world of audio gear. One more question, I see you have the Firebird LPS. How is it connected?

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Really love this article from Michael at Twittering Machines, okay its an editorial piece and I think I am in agreement.

HiFi Thoughts: Audiophile Ethernet Switches & Paper Shades - Twittering Machines

Michael Lavorgna's Twittering Machines: HiFi with a twist

twitteringmachines.com